D&D (2024) We’ll be merging the One D&D and D&D forums shortly

Ideally, there would be tight integration between DDB and the VTT where they are just different interfaces for the same owned or subscribed-to content.
Yes - the barrier here is that there's apparently animosity between the two projects and they have totally different project owners - indeed we've heard that the project owner of the 3D VTT specifically strongly objected to the acquisition of Beyond - though clearly he was overruled, so that could happen again!
 

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Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
we've heard that the project owner of the 3D VTT specifically strongly objected to the acquisition of Beyond - though clearly he was overruled, so that could happen again!
wikipedian_protester.jpg

I had not heard that before, so I'm genuinely interested in a source.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
1. All this seems to highly depend on how many groups adopt the updated ruleset. Like if everyone is using the new rules great! If it's 50-50 then buying the new rulebook may mean you bought the wrong D&D to be able to play with your friends - and there's a good chance you wouldn't even know to ask the question about whether it's the right version or not as you are new.

Okay, how do you imagine that conversation going?

For me, I see something like the new player bringing out their book... and the person with the old rules immediately identifying it and telling them they would prefer to use the older rules that they have, and here is their book.

Or I see the new player going through their character creation and the mentioning that they picked the pike for their Weapon Mastery... and the person with the old rules identifying that those rules aren't in their book, realizing the other player is using new rules, explain they would prefer to use the older rules, and here is their book.

At any functional table I can imagine, this is a brief hiccup, and if the book was clearly labeled 5.5 edition not 5e edition.... the exact same thing would happen anyways. So the branding on the books is not making a difference here, and any confusion i minor at best.

2. And on the other side let's say you have someone casually into D&D that occasionally buys some books. If they walk into the same store and see a D&D players handbook or even Revised 5e D&D Player's Handbook - they are going to think I already own that, why even look at it.

You... realize they will have different cover art, right?

But fine, let us assume that this person who casually buys DnD books walks in the store, sees the Revised PHB and doesn't buy it because they think it is the same book. Are they harmed by this decision? Will they suffer any negative consequences? Let us say they two weeks later run into a DM who demands that they immediately procure the newest rulebook or face the Rod of Beatings... they can just go back to the store and buy the book, now that they know it is a different book.

And how would seeing "Revised Player's Handbook" NOT clue them in that it is different than the Player's Handbook back home? Even if they look at it and assume the book is only midly different, if they are in a brick and mortar store.... they can pick up the book, flip it open, and see the changes for themselves. That's what I would be likely to do.

At the end of the day it seems better to call it something clearly distinct while marketing it's compatibility with existing 5e products (even if a little rough around the edges in some cases).

Okay, but if is clearly distinct from DnD 5e, the game that the blind customer was interested in, or the game that the casual player already has, then doesn't that make them just as likely to pass it by? This doesn't actually prevent the non-problems you pointed out.
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Okay, how do you imagine that conversation going?

For me, I see something like the new player bringing out their book... and the person with the old rules immediately identifying it and telling them they would prefer to use the older rules that they have, and here is their book.

Or I see the new player going through their character creation and the mentioning that they picked the pike for their Weapon Mastery... and the person with the old rules identifying that those rules aren't in their book, realizing the other player is using new rules, explain they would prefer to use the older rules, and here is their book.

At any functional table I can imagine, this is a brief hiccup, and if the book was clearly labeled 5.5 edition not 5e edition.... the exact same thing would happen anyways. So the branding on the books is not making a difference here, and any confusion i minor at best.



You... realize they will have different cover art, right?

But fine, let us assume that this person who casually buys DnD books walks in the store, sees the Revised PHB and doesn't buy it because they think it is the same book. Are they harmed by this decision? Will they suffer any negative consequences? Let us say they two weeks later run into a DM who demands that they immediately procure the newest rulebook or face the Rod of Beatings... they can just go back to the store and buy the book, now that they know it is a different book.

And how would seeing "Revised Player's Handbook" NOT clue them in that it is different than the Player's Handbook back home? Even if they look at it and assume the book is only midly different, if they are in a brick and mortar store.... they can pick up the book, flip it open, and see the changes for themselves. That's what I would be likely to do.



Okay, but if is clearly distinct from DnD 5e, the game that the blind customer was interested in, or the game that the casual player already has, then doesn't that make them just as likely to pass it by? This doesn't actually prevent the non-problems you pointed out.
Are they likely to have the words, "Player's Handbook Revised" on the cover of the book? Bevause the art thing is ambiguous; every book they've come out with in the last several years has had two covers.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Are they likely to have the words, "Player's Handbook Revised" on the cover of the book? Bevause the art thing is ambiguous; every book they've come out with in the last several years has had two covers.
Revised doesn't typically denote major changes/additions so I'm not sure that really solves the problem either.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Are they likely to have the words, "Player's Handbook Revised" on the cover of the book? Bevause the art thing is ambiguous; every book they've come out with in the last several years has had two covers.

Do they often have the specialty, limited edition covers on the store shelves? Are we going to assume that a DM who owns a 2014 PHB isn't at least going to ASK when they see a player with a PHB with a different cover which one that is? Maybe ask why they got the limited edition one, ask to see it? You know... interact like human beings?

For this confusion to affect the game, the DM in this situation has to have no idea about the 2024 rules, and absolutely no desire to look at their friends PHB that looks different than theirs. And even then, even if that is the case, when the rules don't match up... won't the DM ask? Won't they seek to know why their player is using a different rulebook? Because that is option 2 in the scenario I gave.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Revised doesn't typically denote major changes/additions so I'm not sure that really solves the problem either.

Who said it has to denote there are major changes?

Once the DM who is using the older rules knows this hapless player with no idea what they purchased is using an altered set of the rules... won't they move to correct the situation? Tell the player that it would be easier to reference their old PHB which they can lend them, until they've had time to look over the book and see what changes there are? Maybe look up the new book online and discover that they got the 2024 Anniversary edition and look into?

That's why I'm trying to figure out where this terrible confusion is going to strike from that will cause such problems for the game. It seems to require the DM who is using the old rules to run a game for a new player who didn't know they have a different version of the rules, to be completely helpless in the face of a mystery or even the slightest inter-personal challenge. They must have zero curiosity about their friend, and zero impetus to help a new player adjust to the game. It is such a bizarre argument.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Do they often have the specialty, limited edition covers on the store shelves? Are we going to assume that a DM who owns a 2014 PHB isn't at least going to ASK when they see a player with a PHB with a different cover which one that is? Maybe ask why they got the limited edition one, ask to see it? You know... interact like human beings?

For this confusion to affect the game, the DM in this situation has to have no idea about the 2024 rules, and absolutely no desire to look at their friends PHB that looks different than theirs. And even then, even if that is the case, when the rules don't match up... won't the DM ask? Won't they seek to know why their player is using a different rulebook? Because that is option 2 in the scenario I gave.
My store has had both covers on the shelves since WotC started doing them.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
My store has had both covers on the shelves since WotC started doing them.
Sure, we do (until we run out of them).

But there's still little likelihood of any lasting confusion. "Hey, this PHB looks different. Is it a new cover?" (Looks inside). "Nope. It's a different book. Hey, maybe I should look it up on the internet or ask someone at that store that I bought it at to find out what's up."

Store Person: "It's a new version of the Player's Handbook. Yes, it'll work with your average current D&D game - though you might want to ask your DM if they have any objections."
 

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