What are Avengers doing since SOC got nerfed?

[Sanzuo]

Avenger/SoC is, to me, an example of an exploit that isn't supposed to work the way it does. I think Wizards changed it for a good reason. Avenger/Daggermaster seems to be the same way to me as well.

Our group simply has a standing rule of whatever is in DDI is legit, but some combinations are still clearly over the power curve.

 

[BobTheNob]

Well, I know it was a bit overpowered, although I wouldn't call it seriously overpowered. At least I wasn't using it with a Half-Elf and Twin Strike.

Kudos for that at least! You were just cheesy instead of Ultra Cheesy.

Personally, I threw my hands in the air and cheered at the march errata. So many game abuses plugged. I will give it to WOTC, they are putting alot of effort into addressing game balance.

To you sir, as a DM (and player of Avenger, when Im not DM'ing) I say your DM's should definately let you re-pick your paragon, because it sounds like you character is now pretty useless without.

Try not to re-pick a cheeseball build again though. There was a reason WOTC closed this door, and if you cheese it again, you might find that door closing too...

 

[Truename]

Try not to re-pick a cheeseball build again though. There was a reason WOTC closed this door, and if you cheese it again, you might find that door closing too...

I have a player who loves system mastery. In our last campaign, Every. Single. Update. nerfed some item or power of his.

For this campaign, I've told him, "You live by the cheese, you die by the cheese." He only gets one free nerf-retrain throughout his character's career. It put the burden for preventing cheese off of me and back onto him.

 

[Samir]

Go Ardent Champion and use a Jagged weapon through Paragon (switching to a different weapon in Epic after you train Hand of Divine Guidance). You'll end up with about 22% crit, which is just 5% less than what you had before, and no cheese required. Plus, you're no longer limited to using lightsabers. I hear Bloodiron post-errata is still fantastic.

Radiant Servant seems suboptimal now that Avengers have a weapon mastery feat.

As for the leather armor nerf, you might want to check out Unarmored Agility from PHB3.

 

[BobTheNob]

Go Ardent Champion and use a Jagged weapon through Paragon (switching to a different weapon in Epic after you train Hand of Divine Guidance). You'll end up with about 22% crit, which is just 5% less than what you had before, and no cheese required. Plus, you're no longer limited to using lightsabers. I hear Bloodiron post-errata is still fantastic.

Radiant Servant seems suboptimal now that Avengers have a weapon mastery feat.

As for the leather armor nerf, you might want to check out Unarmored Agility from PHB3.

This is what I like. Avengers did have a rocky start in that the better "flavoured" options just were not nearly as potent as cheesy multi-class builds. Now that they have plugged the cheese holes and offered more native options to the avenger (like the crit range at epic) to achieve high damage output, its like the avenger is coming of age.

You above build is an example. Its still an avenger(not some cheesy mutli class half breed) yet can carry his weight.

As for unarmored agility....just about everything I have predicted would be errated has been. Every time errata comes out, I find myself cancelling house rules. I even had one that said that armor of faith only worked with cloth armor!!! (Which I thankfully cancelled once it became official errata). I only today cancelled my house rules for righteous brand and Orbizard abuse, now that they are no longer cheeseable.

I have a prediction for you. Unarmored Agility will not be accumulative with armor of faith, whether by PHB3 release of post release errata

 

[Destil]

Surprised they didn't do the same to daggermaster, and expect to see it in a future update at this rate.

 

[boolean]

I have a prediction for you. Unarmored Agility will not be accumulative with armor of faith, whether by PHB3 release of post release errata

My prediction: They'll leave UA and AoF alone, but make Improved Armor of Faith a Feat bonus.

 

[BobTheNob]

Surprised they didn't do the same to daggermaster, and expect to see it in a future update at this rate.

Make 'Rogue Weapon Talent' a pre-requiset. Its perfect flavor wise and we can put that little multi class cheese nugget to bed.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Radiant Servant seems suboptimal now that Avengers have a weapon mastery feat.

Radiant Servant still get Solar Flare, the Epic-tier-encounter-power-at-level-11. That's something else I'd like to see them errata.

 

[BobTheNob]

Radiant Servant still get Solar Flare, the Epic-tier-encounter-power-at-level-11. That's something else I'd like to see them errata.

Already houseruled that one as well. Just waiting for WOTC to catch up