D&D 5E What happened to the Hermaphrodites???

[ad_hoc]

Oddly enough though, this discussion itself (and those like it elsewhere) might be reason enough to remove it. It's becoming increasingly clear that there's a vocal minority dead set on creating controversy at the slightest hint of language they don't approve of, and it's smarter for WotC to simply avoid including such things at all rather than do so and invite negative attention. I'm staunchly opposed to this course of action myself, but obviously a public company will probably try and err on the safe side of things.

As far as I'm aware this is not the case. The LGBTQ communities I know of thought it was an unfortunate slight in an otherwise awesome section about inclusivity that goes a long way to repairing D&D's past problems.

That was it though, people mostly just saw it as a lack of education on the part of the writers. They didn't see it as being deliberately offensive as the intent of the section was clear.

It is okay to make mistakes.

I'm opposed to it because I strongly dislike censorship, self inflicted or otherwise, and that's what I perceive it to be.

I believe the intent of that section of the PHB was to promote inclusion in the game. I believe the word was removed because it fails at that goal. It was a mistake so it was removed. It has nothing to do with artistic integrity.

Also, I hope the irony isn't lost on you that you are saying what changes should or should not be able to be made to their book.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I don't mind the elven god being any of these things.

I just think the name "Corellon" sounds awfully male. And I don't think it fits to have "her" use a slightly different name when in a female aspect. I'd rather have a more "either/both" sort of name.

Try pronouncing the double "l" as a "y". Besides, isn't "androgynous elf" redundant?

And why do we get worked up over the proper application of human terms to non-humans? Isn't that a bit specist?

 

[Arial Black]

I had a dream last night that dragons were sequential hermaphrodites; they could change from one sex to the other, based on breeding opportunities. Evolutionarily, it made sense for a species with such a small population and birth rate and such a high investment in individuals. But the dragons were embarrassed about it, and it's one of the things that made them grumpy and hide in caves and eat adventurers. My dream was narrated by David Attenborough.

If Sir David says it then it must be true! He is a saint in human form.

Instead of keeping 'hermaphrodite' OR removing the word entirely, they should have returned to the wording which was both precise and inoffensive. Just restore the 'male, female, both or neither' phrasing and you've got more accuracy than any of the proposed alternate words, all of which are inaccurate and/or incomplete.

Corellon is not stuck in a single form, intermediary or otherwise. The alternate words--even putting aside any newly acquired offensiveness--imply a fixed body state which is simply not the case. Inaccurate, confusing and (possibly) offensive to RL people, when the god himself* does not have a real-world intersex condition.

*I used the male pronoun because that is how Corellon has been referred to from the start. I also think that this is a limitation of the English language and that Elven languages would have pronouns better suited to apply to someone who's physical gender is whatever they wish it to be at that moment.

 

[jaelis]

But the point was to compare to elves, who don't have the ability to change at will.

I might have just gone with "indefinite gender" myself.

 

[Jester David]

I imagine they didn't go with intersex or non-binary because those sound less "fantasy" which can take people out of the game. Plus, terms for transgendered and intersex individuals have been undergoing a lot of euphemism treadmill, so any term they use might end up seeming offensive in five or ten years.

The point of the statement is to be inclusionary and accepting of everyone. If that statement actually offends people - using inaccurate terms that have been fought against for years - then it's failing at that purpose.

 

[77IM]

Pro Tip: If someone is offended by what you said, and you didn't mean to offend them, you have two options: 1) apologize and try to reach understanding; 2) disrespect them. Saying "well it's just a word and I wasn't trying to offend anyone and you're getting upset over nothing and I shouldn't have to change" is disrespectful, it's option 2. I'm glad WotC isn't taking that option with their fans.

 

[Bacon Bits]

terms for transgendered and intersex individuals have been undergoing a lot of euphemism treadmill

Boy, howdy. I'm willing to bet the term "transgender" itself only lasts another 10-20 years.

 

[Jester David]

Boy, howdy. I'm willing to bet the term "transgender" itself only lasts another 10-20 years.

Just like terms for people of colour or with mental learning disabilities...

The problem isn't the terms, is the larger society as a whole misusing the term and being negative jerks to the associated group.

 

[Morrus]

I'm opposed to it because I strongly dislike censorship, self inflicted or otherwise, and that's what I perceive it to be.

WotC isn't being censored by anybody. They choose themselves how to artistically express themselves. That's the exact opposite of censorship. What you perceive it to be isn't really material here.

 

[Derren]

WotC isn't being censored by anybody. They choose themselves how to artistically express themselves. That's the exact opposite of censorship. What you perceive it to be isn't really material here.

If they made that choice based on fear for what might happen when they dont do it it is censorship.