D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Warpiglet-7]

I don't think I've ever heard someone refer to the act of leveling up & filling out their character sheet with the fruit of whatever choices they are allowed to make at the time as "the action"

Haha no. It’s quick to know you have x days of rations and mark one hash for a day’s use?

Interestingly, people that want very many choices and little fiddly bits find this act of book keeping “too much!”

(See also arrows).

Having to provision and or find food is part of the action in a hex crawl—especially if it comes with random encounters and some time related tension!

I like this better than say “yeah, we cast good berry again as standard…”.

It’s just taste and imho the notion it’s too much bookkeeping seems like hyperbole vis a vis prestige classes feats or whatever added choices some people clamor for.

But tonight when we play…I know we are well provisioned and won’t run out in our caravan. So my complaint is moot!

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think its kind of easy to miss that there's at least a difference between "I want to have things that distinguish my character mechanically in play and give interesting things to fiddle with" and "I want to do a lot of bookkeeping overhead that may be interesting on a strategic level". They aren't appealing to the same urges at all.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I think its kind of easy to miss that there's at least a difference between "I want to have things that distinguish my character mechanically in play and give interesting things to fiddle with" and "I want to do a lot of bookkeeping overhead that may be interesting on a strategic level". They aren't appealing to the same urges at all.

So say you don’t want to do it! Not globally “it’s too much” to put a hash mark by rations after a day of adventuring! It’s perfectly fine to just not have interest in it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

So say you don’t want to do it! Not globally “it’s too much” to put a hash mark by rations after a day of adventuring! It’s perfectly fine to just not have interest in it.

Generally, correct. However, I'll note this sort of thing doesn't end with just "rations" for a lot of people; many of the same folks want you to follow a lot of minutia of supplies all over the place (ammo, spikes, spell components--there's really no end to it). I can see it sometimes in games that have a very heavy survival-based game-cycle, but that's just not what most people are there for, whether its fantasy or post-apocalypse.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Haha no. It’s quick to know you have x days of rations and mark one hash for a day’s use?

Interestingly, people that want very many choices and little fiddly bits find this act of book keeping “too much!”

(See also arrows).

Having to provision and or find food is part of the action in a hex crawl—especially if it comes with random encounters and some time related tension!

I like this better than say “yeah, we cast good berry again as standard…”.

It’s just taste and imho the notion it’s too much bookkeeping seems like hyperbole vis a vis prestige classes feats or whatever added choices some people clamor for.

But tonight when we play…I know we are well provisioned and won’t run out in our caravan. So my complaint is moot!

Not 'It's too much'; 'It's not fun'.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Not 'It's too much'; 'It's not fun'.

Honesty is all the world needs

 

[Malmuria]

It's not just me.

One of the common complaints of people who switch to PF2, A5e, 4e, 3e,or 2e is that is that 5e is has too many frontload automatic non-decisions and by the time you get to customize your PC to match your vision, it's level 8 and the campaign ended.

5e is very newbie friendly. But like I say before, you can't stay a newb forever. And once people learn 5e, many feel restricted by lack of choices put in there for new players.

I mean, you can't get a feat until level 4.

I think you may be conflating wanting crunchiness/complexity and being a veteran of the game. Many veterans prefer mechanically simple systems, albeit also systems that leave space for DM adjustments and homebrew. It's more that some players (new or long term) enjoy the character-building minigame and customization through feats and others do not.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And by the same token, not every newbie liked being condescended to with the assumption that they can't add numbers or operate Rage.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think you may be conflating wanting crunchiness/complexity and being a veteran of the game. Many veterans prefer mechanically simple systems, albeit also systems that leave space for DM adjustments and homebrew. It's more that some players (new or long term) enjoy the character-building minigame and customization through feats and others do not.

I think you are substituting complexity that grants intricate or elaborate systems with complexity that stems from convoluted & cumbersome hurdles. Simplicity alone is not a thing that only grants good though, too much simplicity & you wind up with a unitasker that becomes an impenetrable serpentine thicket standing in your way if you want to do anything but the one thing the unitasker was built for.

That's not a thing that 5e alone is subject to. Fate comes in several varieties but fate core is significantly more complex than fate accelerated which is paradoxically harder to get the game going in.

 

[Hussar]

It's not just me.

One of the common complaints of people who switch to PF2, A5e, 4e, 3e,or 2e is that is that 5e is has too many frontload automatic non-decisions and by the time you get to customize your PC to match your vision, it's level 8 and the campaign ended.

5e is very newbie friendly. But like I say before, you can't stay a newb forever. And once people learn 5e, many feel restricted by lack of choices put in there for new players.

I mean, you can't get a feat until level 4.

But, again, context matters.

In earlier editions, level 4 was a significant chunk of play time. Easily several months of sessions (depending on how many sessions/month you played). For me, that would likely be about 20-25 sessions to hit level 4 in 3e. In 5e, 4th level should be your 10th session at the latest. You are expected to bump from 1st to 3rd by your 3rd or 4th session, and 4th probably only a few sessions after that. Certainly a LOT sooner than you would in other editions.

My point is, pointing to the levels isn't always the best gauge for things. Additionally, I'd point out that you included 2e in this. I'm not really sure why since 2e frontloaded vritually every single thing you character will ever get for the entire lifespan of the character into 1st level. What decisions does your 2e fighter make after 1st level? Or cleric? Or wizard? Thief? Well, I suppose at least thief got to decide where to spend his thieves skill points on, but, that was about it. But, your other classes were locked in at 1st level and you got zero choices as you level up. Other than spell selection I suppose.