D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?

[Warpiglet-7]

(Hm. Long thread.)

My only real problem with 5e is that it stops feeling and playing like D&D above about 4th level. Monsters become bags of hit points, swords become nerf bats, and spells become strongly worded suggestions. A typical spell that could end an encounter in an earlier edition comes off in 5e feeling like Power Word: I Implore You To Reconsider.

I find this interesting! There are lot of others that feel magic is overpowered.

I don’t have a strong feeling beyond 10th because we often start over with new characters/campaigns.

All of that being said—are you “wanting” it to feel like D&D? I am not asking rhetorically. So many folks want to move away from the traditional game so it’s hard to know.

A vocal group hate save or die and even save or suck. Some think things have gotten too easy while other day everything is too nerfed.

I am still making up my mind about some of this personally.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Is this what people want?

Yes.

For me, I'm good with keeping track of things that add something interesting to the game. I can just have it in my back pocket that I can use that bardic ability to get bonus to a save and also boost temp HP. That's not a problem for me. I like to have a nice, healthy tool box of reliable things I can do rather than hoping the DM will let me do something.

 

[Stalker0]

spells become strongly worded suggestions. A typical spell that could end an encounter in an earlier edition comes off in 5e feeling like Power Word: I Implore You To Reconsider.

I just can't agree with that. Sleep is an encounter ender in the early levels, hypnotic pattern is an encounter ender at 5th to mid levels to....well any level. Wall of force can be an encounter ender at higher levels.

Spells like banishment or polymorph are encounter enders for single monsters.

Control remains plenty strong in 5e, its just condensed into fewer spells. But those spells absolutely get the job done.

 

[Upper_Krust]

I've read the entire thread, I doubt I'll say too much that others have not already mentioned at some point, but here are my thoughts...

1. High Level play doesn't have enough thought behind it (and hasn't for several editions). For those that remember AD&D, high level play branched into the players running their own stronghold or warband or temple, etc. Yes you could continue without this aspect, but it made high-level play feel DISTINCT from the low-mid level game.

2. Overall Monster Design is mechanically lacking, especially (but not limited to) things like the dragons and giants. Few of the monsters seem to have unique or interesting mechanics.

3. The Monster Stat-blocks regurgitate a lot of the same material and pad stuff out filling space (the Magic Resistance trait text instead of just having Magic listed as a Resistance, the same text explaining Legendary Actions, etc.). You could probably reduce most stat-blocks by 30% by just eliminating the padding.

4. The Published Adventures are weak (and have been for a few editions). If I had to point the finger at one specific thing its that they are too padded out - too many encounters.

5. Challenge Rating is a bit of a mess. I think the main culprit for this is that using secondary modifiers as a contributing factor completely nerfs monster damage - which is why most of the high level monsters are underwhelming for their respective CR's.

6. ...personal preference here but I strongly dislike the art in 5E. All too often it has some muted, pastel, washed-out, half-tone drabness that I don't remember in previous editions. I would love to see some black & white line art with strong contrast shadows and/or vibrant colour pieces that don't look like they have been set to 50% transparency and then had a dollop of lilac watercolour sploshed onto the page.

7. Lastly, the biggest villain in 5E D&D is the graphic designer thought having page numbers in the core rulebooks be TINY and FADED was a good idea..."From Hell's heart I stab at thee!"

 

[Minigiant]

For those who want wotc to release more options for more customization: how do you deal with bloat and cognitive load? And do other games (e.g. pathfinder 2e) not have this problem, or does that game just appeal to people who can manage more active things at once.

For example, for the one 5e game that I'm in, I was thinking of playing a college of creation bard, but then I read it and realized it was just too much. For example, the mote of potential provides additional effects based on how it is used. In fact, if it is used for a saving throw it provides another effect on top of that

For example,

The A5E barbarian let's you choose between Unarmored defense or Heavy Armor.

More fighting styles (that aren't fixes to broken rules like thrown fighting or unarmed fighting)

 

[Hussar]

@Malmuria - I can see your point. In my online games, tracking things is a LOT easier than in face to face. Drop an effect on the target and most of the tracking is done by the system, including things like Concentration checks and the like. But, when my College of Whispers player drops his bardic inspiration on something, the wall of text for the effect is HUGE. There's just so many ifs, thens, and maybes in the description. Normally an effect is a line or two on the combat tracker in Fantasy Grounds. Bardic Inspiration is like seven lines long. :wow:

So, yeah, some simplifying might be nice. Effects like choosing between Unarmored Defense and Heavy Armor are fine because these are choices made at chargen or level up and only impact that specific character. But when you start getting into stuff that impacts play, round by round, and multiple characters, it can be a real drag on the game.

I remember a few years back we had a Druid (the one that can summon a spirit that grants Temp HP), and an artificer (the one that can drop the turret that grants temp HP). Then the druid would start dropping summonings. So, we'd have to add like 8 wolves to the combat, rejigger their HP because of feats or whatnot, add in Temp Hp depending on whether or not the turret was popped out, and then deal with those Temp hp coming back each round because of the turret. It was a LOT to track.

 

[Guest 7034872]

Something I've noted with mild displeasure (though I'm guilty of it myself) is, I think, less about 5e and more about where D&D has gone in recent years: leveling up happens awfully fast these days. Again, there's nothing at all in 5e (or any other rules system) that causes this--it's just a trend I've noticed.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Something I've noted with mild displeasure (though I'm guilty of it myself) is, I think, less about 5e and more about where D&D has gone in recent years: leveling up happens awfully fast these days. Again, there's nothing at all in 5e (or any other rules system) that causes this--it's just a trend I've noticed.

Well…I think there is something here worth mentioning.

Most complaints about the game are related to high levels. In ye olde days, some of us getting to high priest (9th) felt like stallions! After perhaps years of play…

Almost every complaint I have seen about 5e seems to originate in things being too easy…too fast.

Slower advancement, more opportunities to interrupt spells, maybe a little more grit….

I have not tweaked things not asked to tweaks as player but I may have to reconsider.

 

[Guest 7034872]

Almost every complaint I have seen about 5e seems to originate in things being to easy…too fast.

I know, and I specifically don't want to put this at the feet of 5e or any other system, as it's really up to the DM/GM to determine the rate at which players level. As I am the DM right now, it is 100% my fault that they're leveling up quickly. My sense of things is that it's just gotten to the point where this is almost expected and a DM's refusal to go along with it creates friction.

Back in dem olden times called "high school" in the 80s, I had a cleric who topped out at 16th level before DM and I both got bored with him and we killed him off in a spectacular fashion. It took me about a year and a half to get him to that level.

 

[Oofta]

I know, and I specifically don't want to put this at the feet of 5e or any other system, as it's really up to the DM/GM to determine the rate at which players level. As I am the DM right now, it is 100% my fault that they're leveling up quickly. My sense of things is that it's just gotten to the point where this is almost expected and a DM's refusal to go along with it creates friction.

Back in dem olden times called "high school" in the 80s, I had a cleric who topped out at 16th level before DM and I both got bored with him and we killed him off in a spectacular fashion. It took me about a year and a half to get him to that level.

I really wish I could organize a weekly game and advance slowly (at least for lower levels). But...reality is that we have difficulty getting together once a month.