D&D General What it means for a race to end up in the PHB, its has huge significance

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

No, it encourages us not to see mix-ancestry characters as defined by their mixed ancestry, and lets the players choose how they want to handle it. In the real world we don't call people "half-X" because it's almost always been used to stereotype and denigrate. Let's not invert reality by pretending it has traditionally been some huge sign of respect to be called a "half-X."

That's why it is being removed, after all. That kind of stereotyping is offensive to actual people.

If the players and DMs were only choosing those species because of the mechanical advantages, then they weren't exactly doing it as a celebration of mixed ancestry. And if they were doing it because of a cool character concept, then nothing has changed. They can still do that.

Or they can keep using the old rule. It's just not being passed on to new players.

Let me be clear: I am in no way, shape, or form advocating for a return to the "half-X" nomenclature. I am advocating for the preservation of distinct mechanical toolkits for Khoravar and Jhor'guntaal (or whatever other names you want to ascribe to peoples of mixed human-elf/human-orc ancestry for general use and non-Eberron settings), because choosing not to do so undermines their foundations as a distinct, cohesive population block.

Of course people of mixed heritage are not defined solely by their mixed ancestry. No one is defined solely by their ancestry. But an elf can be everything a character can be without compromising on the fact that they are an elf. In order to play a Khoravar, I now have to decide whether they are the "human" kind of Khoravar or the "elf" kind of Khoravar, and for every future interaction with the game system, that is all that matters. Wanting some kind of mechanical representation for mixed lineage is not "doing it for the wrong reasons". I can very much want my Khoravar to celebrate both their human and elf lineages, and still feel that being mechanically chained to the entirety of the elf statblock is a limiting factor to my enjoyment of the character.

And most of the "suggestions" on how to meld the two mechanical kits boil down to "make it your character's entire background and 1st level feat" (in an entirely theoretical fashion, given that we have no indication of WotC's official system changing from the proposed "pick a parent and reflavor" methodology).

What about that web series we were supposed to get about Drizz't's half-Drow daughter?

Honestly, I know nothing about it.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Let me be clear: I am in no way, shape, or form advocating for a return to "half-X" nomenclature. I am advocating for the preservation of distinct mechanical toolkits for Khoravar and Jhor'guntaal (or whatever other names you want to ascribe to peoples of human-elf/human-orc ancestry for other settings), because choosing not to do so undermines their foundations as a distinct, cohesive population block.

Of course people of mixed heritage are not defined solely by their mixed ancestry. No one is defined solely by their ancestry. But an elf can be everything a character can be without compromising on the fact that they are an elf. In order to play a Khoravar, I have to now decide whether they are the "human" kind of Khoravar or the "elf" kind of Khoravar, and most of the "suggestions" on how to meld the two mechanical kits boil down to "make it your character's entire background and 1st level feat" (in an entirely theoretical fashion, given that we have no indication of WotC's official system changing from the proposed "pick a parent and reflavor" methodology).

Wanting a mechanical representation for mixed lineage is not "doing it for the wrong reasons". I can very much want my Khoravar to celebrate both their human and elf lineages and still feel that being mechanically chained to the entirety of the elf statblock is a limiting factor to my enjoyment of the character.


Honestly, I know nothing about it.

I suppose it's worth noting: Half-elves as a distinct culture is an Eberron thing; in most settings they're not a distinct permanent population. Which means that the solution to your issue is necessary for the nu5e Eberron Campaign Guide, not the PHB designed to work well enough in most settings.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

I suppose it's worth noting: Half-elves as a distinct culture is an Eberron thing; in most settings they're not a distinct permanent population. Which means that the solution to your issue is necessary for the nu5e Eberron Campaign Guide, not the PHB designed to work well enough in most settings.

Sure, in theory, though it puts Eberron players in a bind until they get around to releasing a new Eberron book - assuming Khoravar and Jhor'guntaal still exist in Eberron lore by the time they do so...

But more importantly, it still leaves the PHB saying that from the perspective of the core system, characters of mixed ancestry are an anomaly. I do not like the message that sends, however unintentional it may be.

 

[James Gasik]

Let me be clear: I am in no way, shape, or form advocating for a return to the "half-X" nomenclature. I am advocating for the preservation of distinct mechanical toolkits for Khoravar and Jhor'guntaal (or whatever other names you want to ascribe to peoples of mixed human-elf/human-orc ancestry for general use and non-Eberron settings), because choosing not to do so undermines their foundations as a distinct, cohesive population block.

Of course people of mixed heritage are not defined solely by their mixed ancestry. No one is defined solely by their ancestry. But an elf can be everything a character can be without compromising on the fact that they are an elf. In order to play a Khoravar, I now have to decide whether they are the "human" kind of Khoravar or the "elf" kind of Khoravar, and for every future interaction with the game system, that is all that matters. Wanting some kind of mechanical representation for mixed lineage is not "doing it for the wrong reasons". I can very much want my Khoravar to celebrate both their human and elf lineages, and still feel that being mechanically chained to the entirety of the elf statblock is a limiting factor to my enjoyment of the character.

And most of the "suggestions" on how to meld the two mechanical kits boil down to "make it your character's entire background and 1st level feat" (in an entirely theoretical fashion, given that we have no indication of WotC's official system changing from the proposed "pick a parent and reflavor" methodology).


Honestly, I know nothing about it.

This is all I know, haven't heard anything since.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

This is all I know, haven't heard anything since.

Never been much of a Driz'zt fan or delved into WEBTOON comic stuff, so I guess it passed me by.

Would be a positive sign, if anything ever comes of it, though it really only shows what they've previously claimed - that mixed ancestry characters are still supported at least as far as the narrative is concerned. My issue is that without corresponding mechanics, even if those mechanics are entirely optional, those narratives are being symbolically minimized and discouraged by the game system itself.

And in the meantime, they turned the one "half-elf" NPC in Phandelver into a drow, turned the "half-orc" factol of the Bleak Cabal in Sigil into an orc, and so far as I can tell, haven't noted any character in a game book as being of mixed ancestry in more than a year, at least.

 

[Mephista]

A few bits to keep in mind.

Species no longer includes culture bits. Only biology. so an entire culture of half-elves in one setting means nothing. If you want to talk about a reason to keep a distinct set of mechanics, you need to talk about fantasy-biology.

I mean, there's a bit of wiggleroom with things like skills or tool proficencies, since those are a bit weird as biological features... but you can't justify an entire species based on them having a country in one setting. That's purely culture. Need to talk about how they are biologically distinct.

That's how 5.5e is doing species.

A second point. We've had other half-human, half-monster races before. Notably half-dragon, half-giants. And we now have dragonborn and Goliath as their spiritual successors, and does the larger community really care that we dont have pc half-dragons? I haven't really seen anything to suggest it. I've seen people adapt and move on.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

No, it encourages us not to see mix-ancestry characters as defined by their mixed ancestry, and lets the players choose how they want to handle it.

As opposed to elves not being defined by being elves? Or dwarves not being defined by being dwarves? When people talk about their dnd characters, they outright say "I have a dwarf paladin", or "I'm playing a dragonborn fighter". In DnD, species massively defines each player character.

Your logic applies to any player species, and not just hybrids.

 

[teitan]

I've had drow in my games, but I've never seen one who was a ranger, duel wielder, fan of scimitars, or who had an animal companion. Clerics and bards I've seen.

I think that stereotype went out with third edition.

Still stands as a common experience at one time. I also said, and it’s like people are ignoring that part to drag me, I’m pretty easy to convince.

 

[Yaarel]

And in the meantime, they turned the one "half-elf" NPC in Phandelver into a drow, turned the "half-orc" factol of the Bleak Cabal in Sigil into an orc, and so far as I can tell, haven't noted any character in a game book as being of mixed ancestry in more than a year, at least.

It seems to me, the motive of these retcons was to have opportunities to place a Non-Evil Drow and a Non-Evil Orc as normal members of recognizable cultures.

 

[Yaarel]

But more importantly, it still leaves the PHB saying that from the perspective of the core system, characters of mixed ancestry are an anomaly. I do not like the message that sends, however unintentional it may be.

I assume the 2024 Players Handbook, in the same chapter as the species, will have a section that explains how to stat a multispecies character. It will probably have Human-Elf and Human-Orc as examples. The "Human-Elf in Other Worlds" sidebar will briefly mention the prominent cultures that it is a member of, in Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Greyhawk, etcetera.

There will probably be an odd third example, such as Dragonborn-Gnome or Goliath-Aasimar. Its sidebars might briefly explain how this might happen, such as a Gnome growing up near an Ancient Dragon.