D&D General What it means for a race to end up in the PHB, its has huge significance

[James Gasik]

Ngl seeing them called 'half-breeds' is kinda nauseating.

Granted. Unfortunately, that was kind of the standard for the game for a long time.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

I don't think anyone is advocating for a return to the "half-X" nomenclature.

The only reason I sometimes default to using "half-elf" and "half-orc" to describe characters/populations of mixed human-elf and human-orc heritage is a combination of habit and the fact that my go-to alternates of Khoravar/Jhor'guntaal and Aiuvarin/Dromaar are setting-specific terms that have no meaning outside of Eberron and Golarion (Pathfinder), respectively.

If/when we have an agreed upon, setting-neutral set of terms to refer to "half-elves" and "half-orcs" that is less clunky to use in writing and conversation than "person(s)/population(s) of mixed human-elf/human-orc lineage", it'll be far easier to move on from the "half-X" terms.

Thing is, I don't think they're likely to get that so long as they only exist in a sidebar about mixed-ancestry characters, particularly if any attempt to do so is shot down with complaints about special treatment and demands that all 900+ other possible parentage combinations also get their own unique terminology as well.

When was the last time WotC acknowledged the existence of a mixed-ancestry character or population in a book, by the way? Of any kind?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

My preferred terminology is 'hybrid', as that's the scientific term used when two different species reproduce.

Then when being more specific I prefer things like elf-human, or dwarf-orc.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

My preferred terminology is 'hybrid', as that's the scientific term used when two different species reproduce.

Then when being more specific I prefer things like elf-human, or dwarf-orc.

Still a bit clunky, in my opinion.

"Hybrid" may be technically accurate, but it's useless without also first specifying what components the hybrid consists of - no one's just a hybrid, they're an "x-y hybrid" or an "x-z hybrid", which basically means it only really serves to replace the word "mixed" in "person of mixed x-y lineage".

"Hybrid" also isn't a term for a people, it's a term for a statistical outlier - it implies and reinforces the idea that these individuals are rare and likely don't have an identity or civilization of their own. I might use it when talking about a world like Middle-Earth that only has a handful of "half-elves" in it, but I wouldn't when describing a long established, self-sustaining population like Khoravar from Eberron.

Once they reach a certain critical mass, I feel they need to be acknowledged as their own thing, not just the "parents" they were derived from - which is to say that I feel they need their own name and mechanics.

 

[Yaarel]

I prefer the technical term "multispecies" character, paralleling the term "multiclass" character.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Still a bit clunky, in my opinion.

"Hybrid" may be technically accurate, but it's useless without also specifying what components the hybrid consists of - no one's just a hybrid, they're an "x-y hybrid" or and "x-z hybrid", which basically means it only really serves to replace the word "mixed" in "person of mixed x-y lineage".

"Hybrid" also isn't a term for a people, it's a term for a statistical outlier - it implies and reinforces the idea that these individuals are rare and likely don't have an identity or civilization of their own. I might use it when talking about a world that only has a handful of "half-elves" in it - Middle-Earth, for example - but I'd wouldn't when describing a long established, self-sustaining population like Khoravar from Eberron.

Once they reach a certain critical mass, I feel they need to be acknowledged as their own thing, not just the "parents" they were derived from - which is to say that I feel they need their own name and mechanics.

I mean that's what happens irl as well. If enough hybrids result in their own population, then they become their own thing.

The Clymene dolphin is its own recognised species, but it originally came about due to the crossbreeding of striped dolphins and spinner dolphins.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

I mean that's what happens irl as well. If enough hybrids result in their own population, then they become their own thing.

The Clymene dolphin is its own recognised species, but it originally came about due to the crossbreeding of striped dolphins and spinner dolphins.

Of course.

Just saying that's why I disagree with the whole "take away distinct 'half-elf/orc' mechanics and shove every reference to the existence of mixed-ancestry characters into a sidebar in the PHB" thing.

It enforces a view of mixed-ancestry peoples that pretty much treats them as meaningless and irrelevant outliers that can have no identity save that granted to them by their parent ancestries. It encourages players and DMs to just not bother.

Again, when was the last time WotC mentioned a character/population as being mixed-ancestry in a D&D book? Because they've been removing references to existing mixed characters since at least Phandelver.

 

[Clint_L]

It enforces a view of mixed-ancestry peoples that pretty much treats them as meaningless and irrelevant outliers that can have no identity save that granted to them by their parent ancestries. It encourages players and DMs to just not bother.

No, it encourages us not to see mix-ancestry characters as defined by their mixed ancestry, and lets the players choose how they want to handle it. In the real world we don't call people "half-X" because it's almost always been used to stereotype and denigrate. Let's not invert reality by pretending it has traditionally been some huge sign of respect to be called a "half-X."

That's why it is being removed, after all. That kind of stereotyping is offensive to actual people.

If the players and DMs were only choosing those species because of the mechanical advantages, then they weren't exactly doing it as a celebration of mixed ancestry. And if they were doing it because of a cool character concept, then nothing has changed. They can still do that.

Or they can keep using the old rule. It's just not being passed on to new players.

 

[CreamCloud0]

In the real world we don't call people "half-X" because it's almost always been used to stereotype and denigrate.

In the real world the people getting labelled with that moniker aren’t literally different species though

 

[James Gasik]

I don't think anyone is advocating for a return to the "half-X" nomenclature.

The only reason I sometimes default to using "half-elf" and "half-orc" to describe characters/populations of mixed human-elf and human-orc heritage is a combination of habit and the fact that my go-to alternates of Khoravar/Jhor'guntaal and Aiuvarin/Dromaar are setting-specific terms that have no meaning outside of Eberron and Golarion (Pathfinder), respectively.

If/when we have an agreed upon, setting-neutral set of terms to refer to "half-elves" and "half-orcs" that is less clunky to use in writing and conversation than "person(s)/population(s) of mixed human-elf/human-orc lineage", it'll be far easier to move on from the "half-X" terms.

Thing is, I don't think they're likely to get that so long as they only exist in a sidebar about mixed-ancestry characters, particularly if any attempt to do so is shot down with complaints about special treatment and demands that all 900+ other possible parentage combinations also get their own unique terminology as well.

When was the last time WotC acknowledged the existence of a mixed-ancestry character or population in a book, by the way? Of any kind?

What about that web series we were supposed to get about Drizz't's half-Drow daughter?