D&D 5E What Rules do you see people mistake or misapply?

[Caliban]

Really?

A Gargoyle 'being motionless' is a Hide attempt. Invisible lets you hide for free. Right? So, not 'automatic'. The Gargoyle is trying to Hide.

Nope. The gargoyle hasn't taken the "Hide/Stealth" action. That's the whole point - becoming essentially undetectable without actually using the Stealth skill.

Different scenario: A warlock with Devil Sight has both Darkness and Silence on him (he and the cleric work out the details) and then moves until an enemy is under the effect of both spells.

The enemy now automatically fails all sight and hearing bases perception checks - does the warlock still have to take an action to Hide from the enemy?

 

[schnee]

Nope. The gargoyle hasn't taken the "Hide/Stealth" action. That's the whole point.

How can an invisible character 'stand as still as possible' to not make noise and not be considered as Hiding?

Am I to understand that at your table, if a character says 'I stand as still as possible' means they don't hide, because they didn't say 'I take the Stealth action'?

I really want to see this play out at your table.

Player: 'I swing my sword at the Dragon'
Caliban: 'OK, you swung the sword. Next person?'
Player: 'Wait, I attacked. I rolled 22.'
Caliban: 'No, you didn't. You said you swung your sword.'
Player: "..."
Caliban: 'You didn't say 'I take a Melee Attack action. Next?'
Player:
Caliban:

 

[Caliban]

How can an invisible character 'stand as still as possible' to not make noise and not be considered as Hiding?

By not taking the Hide action. Or are you saying they get to use their Stealth skill without taking an action?

And the rest of your post? No, you really, really don't understand how things work at my table. Sorry this is such a difficult concept for you.

Anyway, the gargoyle scenario wasn't one I proposed, so go be a prick to someone else about it if you don't like it.

 

[Oofta]

By not taking the Hide action. Or are you saying they get to use their Stealth skill without taking an action?

And the rest of your post? No, you really, really don't understand how things work at my table. Sorry this is such a difficult concept for you.

Anyway, the gargoyle scenario wasn't one I proposed, so go be a prick to someone else about it if you don't like it.

Well the gargoyle was my idea, because there's no spell in the book to turn a statue invisible, so therefore according to some people you could never have an invisible statue. I think that's silly. If I want an invisible statue, it exists because "magic". But the statue could also just be in a zone of darkness, same thing as far as the rules (or ruling because there are not rules) applies.

But your scenario of the warlock with blindsight in a darkness and a zone of silence also applies. There's no way of detecting the warlock, so no stealth is required.

Or a sorcerer with the still spell feat, and an invisibility cloak that casts silence.

Or the DM has just decided that because of other environmental factors there's no chance to hear the invisible creature, and they aren't leaving tracks or otherwise interacting with the environment that leaves a trace.

But none of those arguments will ever be enough. There will always be some loophole, someone who will claim that only their POV is correct, not because there are any rules to back it up, but because they've decided that it will be so.

I believe that the rules are written in such a way that rulings about certain things will always be left in the hands of the DM. That was confirmed in the podcast. Always have a chance to detect something you can't see? Perfectly legit. Can't detect something if you can't see it under some circumstances? Also legit.

 

[Hussar]

Well, to be fair, I'd probably agree that our warlock is hidden. I mean, that's about as rock solid as you can get - not only is he hidden by a very large darkness area, but, he's silent as well. There's no real way of knowing where he is, other than, "somewhere in the middle of that big dark sphere".

OTOH, Darkness is what, a 20 foot radius? IDHMBIFOM, so, I'm going from memory. Aiming for the center of the circle shouldn't be too difficult.

Then again, what about simply at night? The warlock is heavily obscured, obviously, and silenced. That means he's not completely undetectable? Seems a pretty easy way to become completely undetectable and extremely powerful. I mean, keep using abilities without flashy visible effects and you can be very, very dominant.

But, in any case, so what? Yay, you found an example where it's possible to be completely hidden without taking the hide action. Good? Etherealness does exactly the same thing. Meld with Stone (is that a 5e spell anymore?) could do the same thing. Specific trumps general. Yup, that's true.

I guess that trick is, where do you draw the line? Me, I set a much higher bar on this.

 

[Oofta]

I guess that trick is, where do you draw the line? Me, I set a much higher bar on this.

Which is fine. I like to be more-or-less realistic, and I like having multiple tools to set up challenges. Like the escort mission where the party is being attacked by drow in the darkness (staying outside the typical 60 ft darkvision) that I'm debating. I have no idea how my characters will deal with it, but I'm sure they'll figure out something.

The point is to set up fun obstacles the party have to overcome. If they're a little frustrated at times but ultimately have fun with the "aha" moments, then I'm doing my job.

Having said that, undetectable opponents are extremely rare, but can be a nice change of pace if used sparingly.

 

[Hussar]

Which is fine. I like to be more-or-less realistic, and I like having multiple tools to set up challenges. Like the escort mission where the party is being attacked by drow in the darkness (staying outside the typical 60 ft darkvision) that I'm debating. I have no idea how my characters will deal with it, but I'm sure they'll figure out something.

The point is to set up fun obstacles the party have to overcome. If they're a little frustrated at times but ultimately have fun with the "aha" moments, then I'm doing my job.

Having said that, undetectable opponents are extremely rare, but can be a nice change of pace if used sparingly.

But, stop and think about what your ruling just did.

Warlock casts darkness. Cleric casts silence on a rock and hands it to the warlock. The warlock is now invincible. He's completely immune to all attacks other than area attacks. He can never, ever be targeted. He attacks then moves 5-20 feet away. NPC's cannot find him, as he is undetectable. No targeted spells. And every attack can only be made at random squares.

A second level spell and our warlock can now obliterate virtually any enemy that doesn't have true-sight or tremor sense or some sort of scent ability. Which aren't that common of abilities.

I'm thinking that a pair of second level spells shouldn't make a PC invincible in combat. You've ruled that he is 100% undetectable without interfering with his actions at all. Setting this up takes all of one round and is easily achievable by a 3rd level party. Set this up, everyone else falls back and our warlock can't be defeated. Even if the enemy does manage to luck out and attack the right square, they've still got disadvantage. Our warlock is attack with advantage every round.

I really don't think this is a good idea. Realistic or not.

 

[Prakriti]

Warlock casts darkness. Cleric casts silence on a rock and hands it to the warlock.

Silence targets a point in range, not an object. Based on that, I wouldn't let anything besides a fixed point in space be the target of a silence spell.

 

[Caliban]

Silence targets a point in range, not an object. Based on that, I wouldn't let anything besides a fixed point in space be the target of a silence spell.

Damn. Previous edition knowledge tripping me up again - in 3e it was "creature, object, or point in space" which is what I was thinking of when I originally suggested it.

 

[schnee]

By not taking the Hide action. Or are you saying they get to use their Stealth skill without taking an action?

The action taken was 'standing as still as possible'. That is 'an action' because when the player's turn came, they said that is what they did. They didn't run, they didn't draw a weapon, they didn't hum a tune... they attempted to make less noise by standing as still as possible.

Again...

1) Player is invisible
2) DM: 'What do you do?'
3) Player: 'I stand as still as possible'

Do you honestly rule this as the player not trying to take the Hide action?

If so, what do you rule they did with that action instead?

And why?