D&D 5E What size (thickness) book are you hoping the PHB, DMG, and MM will be and how much fluff do you expect?

[Mistwell]

I would like to focus on this part. Intro products of anything nowadays are not something that sell well.

Both the 4e intro boxed set, and the PF intro boxed set, sold well.

They are also a format that can be carried in numerous retail outlets, where books cannot be carried. For example, the games section of Toys R Us, Walmart, Target, etc..

I personally think the beginner boxed set is crucial to the success of the new edition. I do not think the edition can succeed by appealing primarily to existing players - they must gain new players for success, and the key to new players (in addition to a strong marketing campaign) is a beginner boxed set in the board game section of major retail outlets.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In a perfect world I would want a soft cover digest size D&D 5e book that was about 320 pages, 150 or so pages on rules and setting, 100 pages on classes and spells, 30ish pages on advice and options, and the rest of the book sample monsters and trps and encoutners. It would be playable with just this $20 or less book.

A second book, this one hard cover full size would be the Dungeon Masters Guide and bea a little bigger with more advice, more options, and full example setting. It would have 100+ monsters in it.

A third book would be Arcana Unearth and be just optional rules and spells and variant classes

The first Monster Manuiel would be a year later, and I'm not sure how big.

Year two right before Christmas I would put out a box set including the D&D core book, a smaller striped down DMG, and an adventure with maps and tokens, and with that have 10 premade characters each taking up 1/4 a page so each page would have level 1-4

 

[Warunsun]

I don't care how many pages they use. My only concern is that they don't intentionally keep certain core aspects saved for later publication. This means having half-orcs, gnomes, and bards available on day one instead of one year later. Sure, somethings have to be saved for splat books or expansions. I do get that but the core things need to be available.

 

[Farscape]

Both the 4e intro boxed set, and the PF intro boxed set, sold well.

They are also a format that can be carried in numerous retail outlets, where books cannot be carried. For example, the games section of Toys R Us, Walmart, Target, etc..

I personally think the beginner boxed set is crucial to the success of the new edition. I do not think the edition can succeed by appealing primarily to existing players - they must gain new players for success, and the key to new players (in addition to a strong marketing campaign) is a beginner boxed set in the board game section of major retail outlets.

The 4e boxset might have sold well but the product itself was a joke. I think people bought that boxset thinking it was one thing and it turned out to be something else. The Pathfinder boxset was nice but it was not crucial to the success of the game. Most people are on the internet now, so what I would do is just offer a quick set of rules online for free to allow people to try it out first. I think beginner boxsets have gone by the wayside and are just a wasted product.

 

[fjw70]

Agree. Beginner's or intro box set is not needed. What is needed is a lite core rules only basis set that is a full game in its own right.

 

[gweinel]

A solid - thick book like ph/dmg of 2nde and 3.5e would suffice for me. Also, the more fluff the better it for me. As an exceptional quality and writing style product i regard the The One Ring rpg from Cubicle 7. It is a pleasure to read while at the same it presents you the rules and the basic gaming concepts.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

first to put this in perspective right now we have:
read first 5 pages
Backgrounds and skills 7 pages
Bestiary 89 pages
Char creation 5 pages
Classes 50 pages
DM guidelines 20 pages
Equipment 13 pages
Feats 4 pages
How to play 29 pages
Magic items 28 pages
Multiclassing 3 pages
Races 12 pages
Spells 58 pages

total 310 pages....

I don't care how many pages they use. My only concern is that they don't intentionally keep certain core aspects saved for later publication. This means having half-orcs, gnomes, and bards available on day one instead of one year later. Sure, somethings have to be saved for splat books or expansions. I do get that but the core things need to be available.

I am of two minds of this. On one hand I understand how I would be upset if I can't play a ranger out of the box, BUT I want them to get the ranger right, not just throw it out there.

 

[Mistwell]

The 4e boxset might have sold well but the product itself was a joke.

I agree, but irrelevant to my point. It sold well, as did the PF boxed set. Hence, there is already a strong market for such boxed sets.

I think people bought that boxset thinking it was one thing and it turned out to be something else. The Pathfinder boxset was nice but it was not crucial to the success of the game.

Right, because PF is a game built on an existing system with an existing player base, and is not marketed much beyond that player base. Despite that, it STILL sold well.

Most people are on the internet now, so what I would do is just offer a quick set of rules online for free to allow people to try it out first. I think beginner boxsets have gone by the wayside and are just a wasted product.

Most NEW players are not "on the internet now" in the sense that they are not going to go looking for a new game on the internet. Also, it requires dice. Someone will likely need to buy them a gift of the game for them to try it out - which is the greatest strength of a beginners boxed set.

As for them having gone by the wayside - again, both the PF and 4e boxed sets sold well. Isn't that a good indicator they're still a product in demand?Obviously there is existing demand for such products, and the demand will be much greater if they market it wider. Board Games right now are HUGE, and Hasbro does them well. A boxed set falls close by board game marketing and has cross-interest with board gamers.

 

[JEB]

Another here who favors a boxed set + advanced books model:

- One core boxed set, which contains a complete, playable version of D&D 5E. Fighter/cleric/rogue/wizard, human/dwarf/elf/halfling. All the most common and general spells, equipment, etc. Pre-gen characters alongside fully functional character creation rules. The rules should be suitable for pickup games, but not intentionally incomplete. MSRP should be $20 or less.
- Player's Handbook: More classes, more races, more spells, plus tons of rule and non-rule options for personalizing your character. Focus on making characters memorable and interesting, more than giving them an overwhelming array of optimization options. MSRP should be $25 or less, sized to match that price.
- Dungeon Master's Guide: A toolkit for DMs, with a focus on how to produce campaigns, and how to produce your own content (spells, magic items, monsters, etc.). Include optional rules, including popular options from previous editions, but stress that they're optional. Needs to be as inspirational as possible. MSRP should be $25 or less, sized to match that price.
- Monster Manual: As much as I'd love a tome the size of the Monstrous Manual (the book that got me interested in D&D), that's probably not practical nowadays. However, a "greatest hits" approach is critical. I also think stats are less important than making sure the monsters are interesting both inside and outside of battle, so I would err on the side of more fluff - like the Monstrous Manual. MSRP should be $25 or less, sized to match that price.

Oh, and I favor 6x9, like the Essentials books, over the traditional 8.5x11.

I should note, BTW, that the playtest packets present a perfectly playable game, yet - as someone noted - they're a little over 300 pages total. We don't need huge books up front, those can arrive later, if they must (I think we can keep them smaller).

One more thing. When you buy the books new, it should also grant you access to online/app versions of the material. Free access would be best, but a free trial would be a nice runner-up.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I should note, BTW, that the playtest packets present a perfectly playable game, yet - as someone noted - they're a little over 300 pages total. We don't need huge books up front, those can arrive later, if they must (I think we can keep them smaller).

310 pages with DM stuff and Monsters. Meaning when you add in all the stuff that is mostly filler to us (What is role playing, what is a D10 ect.) you will most likely be at 350... double the class section (more options, some flavor text, and some example builds) is up to 400. 1.5x the monsters to give some more room for growth plus some new ones, and that is +45 that is still less then 500pages...

there is no reason we can't get 600 pages split between 2 books (3XX each) and have the monsters in the DMG at first...

heck you can do a sample adventure in 10 pages, and have 3-5 of them in those books