Wheel of Time Discussion - Spoilers(with book spoilers)

[TheSword]

I think people will come back. Certainly anyone who was a fan of the books is still going to want to come back and see how they handle series 2.

That’s not really going to be the measure of success though. With average 3 star reviews and 67% audience score on rotten tomatoes are they going to greenlight series 3-7, when they could instead greenlight the next equivalent to Power with its 4 star reviews and 87% audience score. Or Queens Gambit with its 5 stars and 94% audience score. Remember WOT isn’t in competition with Shanara or Game of Thrones. It’s in competition with the other proposals Amazon are receiving.

For me, series 1 had promise and some great elements, but dropped the ball a little too much for my liking. In particular the last episode was a bit of a damp squib. Of course I’ll keep watching, but that won’t be because the series made me want to… but rather that the books make me want to see how it turns out. If you haven’t read the books I’m not sure that impetus would be there.

 

[Parmandur]

Basing it on the success of season 1… a lot

I mean, yeah, the reception has seemed mostly positive.

 

[Parmandur]

That’s not really going to be the measure of success though.

I mean, that literally is the measure of success for Amazon, though. Critical ratings don't matter, viewing numbers do. Driving book and audio book sales, to boot.

 

[Ryujin]

I think people will come back. Certainly anyone who was a fan of the books is still going to want to come back and see how they handle series 2.

That’s not really going to be the measure of success though. With average 3 star reviews and 67% audience score on rotten tomatoes are they going to greenlight series 3-7, when they could instead greenlight the next equivalent to Power with its 4 star reviews and 87% audience score. Or Queens Gambit with its 5 stars and 94% audience score. Remember WOT isn’t in competition with Shanara or Game of Thrones. It’s in competition with the other proposals Amazon are receiving.

For me, series 1 had promise and some great elements, but dropped the ball a little too much for my liking. In particular the last episode was a bit of a damp squib. Of course I’ll keep watching, but that won’t be because the series made me want to… but rather that the books make me want to see how it turns out. If you haven’t read the books I’m not sure that impetus would be there.

"Eyes On" is the only measure that really matters, for Amazon. If the ratings are good enough, regardless of the audience scores, more will get made. No, Amazon isn't in competition with Shanara (it was cancelled) or Game of Thrones. They're in competition for subscriptions. If their aggregate programming is enough to keep building viewership, then they'll keep going with it. If a property doesn't meet those viewership goals, which typically will involve growth rather than retention, then it'll get the axe.

 

[TheSword]

I mean, that literally is the measure of success for Amazon, though. Critical ratings don't matter, viewing numbers do. Driving book and audio book sales, to boot.

"Eyes On" is the only measure that really matters, for Amazon. If the ratings are good enough, regardless of the audience scores, more will get made. No, Amazon isn't in competition with Shanara (it was cancelled) or Game of Thrones. They're in competition for subscriptions. If their aggregate programming is enough to keep building viewership, then they'll keep going with it. If a property doesn't meet those viewership goals, which typically will involve growth rather than retention, then it'll get the axe.

Sure. My point is that if eyes on will be better with an alternative then that $80 million isn’t gonna get spent on season 3 etc.

I wouldn’t underestimate audience opinions. Good marketing and faith in the platform, cast, show runner etc can launch a product. Keeping it going is a different matter. Audience score is a measure of satisfaction, which is for long run seasons.

Game of Thrones didn’t start off the massive hit it ended up being. It grew that way because of net promotion and audiences saying it was a must watch… are you telling your friends WOT is a much watch? Would you buy it if it was £15 a season? Or are people just watching it because it’s free with Prime. There are lots of things to watch on streaming. There are at least seven or eight shows competing for my time right now. At least two or three won’t get watched/finished.

 

[Parmandur]

Sure. My point is that if eyes on will be better with an alternative then that $80 million isn’t gonna get spent on season 3 etc.

I wouldn’t underestimate audience opinions. Good marketing and faith in the platform, cast, show runner etc can launch a product. Keeping it going is a different matter. Audience score is a measure of satisfaction, which is for long run seasons.

Game of Thrones didn’t start off the massive hit it ended up being. It grew that way because of net promotion and audiences saying it was a must watch… are you telling your friends WOT is a much watch? Would you buy it if it was £15 a season? Or are people just watching it because it’s free with Prime. There are lots of things to watch on streaming. There are at least seven or eight shows competing for my time right now. At least two or three won’t get watched/finished.

To be honest, I haven't watched it yet, just finished my listen to the audio book in preparation. The chatter, however, is positive, and people saw it through it seems. The review numbers are suspect, due to the review bomb garbage people engage in. Essentially worthless for any sort of analysis.

 

[Maxperson]

I mean, that literally is the measure of success for Amazon, though. Critical ratings don't matter, viewing numbers do. Driving book and audio book sales, to boot.

This. I discovered that I had somehow lost book 1 shortly after the series started and went to a used book store that in the past had many copies of the books. There were literally no copies of any of Jordan's books on the shelves. The owners told me that they flew off the shelf as soon as the series started and that as soon as they got a copy, it sold.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure. My point is that if eyes on will be better with an alternative then that $80 million isn’t gonna get spent on season 3 etc.

It's not "will be better." It's "might be better" and you don't typically axe a show with good viewership on a "maybe the next show will be better."

Game of Thrones didn’t start off the massive hit it ended up being. It grew that way because of net promotion and audiences saying it was a must watch… are you telling your friends WOT is a much watch?

Yes. Despite my issues with some of the changes, I have been recommending it to my friends.

 

[Parmandur]

This. I discovered that I had somehow lost book 1 shortly after the series started and went to a used book store that in the past had many copies of the books. There were literally no copies of any of Jordan's books on the shelves. The owners told me that they flew off the shelf as soon as the series started and that as soon as they got a copy, it sold.

Even if I end up really turned off by the show, I'll love it's existence simply for raising the profile of these great books back into the limelight.

 

[Ryujin]

Sure. My point is that if eyes on will be better with an alternative then that $80 million isn’t gonna get spent on season 3 etc.

I wouldn’t underestimate audience opinions. Good marketing and faith in the platform, cast, show runner etc can launch a product. Keeping it going is a different matter. Audience score is a measure of satisfaction, which is for long run seasons.

Game of Thrones didn’t start off the massive hit it ended up being. It grew that way because of net promotion and audiences saying it was a must watch… are you telling your friends WOT is a much watch? Would you buy it if it was £15 a season? Or are people just watching it because it’s free with Prime. There are lots of things to watch on streaming. There are at least seven or eight shows competing for my time right now. At least two or three won’t get watched/finished.

You discount "hate watching", which seems to be a rather significant component these days. Amazon knows instantly who is and isn't watching a show, when they're watching it, if they stop and start it multiple times... They don't need "ratings" to figure out if a show is worth running or not.