When an author kills characters...

[ShadowX]

The thing for me is that if I feel that "the author" has killed a character (as I did in ASoIaF) I completely lose nterest in the rest of the story. Because my suspension of disbelief has been dealt a death blow, I don't care what will happen to the characters - I already know. "Whatever the author feels like" is whats going to happen.

Sure, obviously in the end thats the truth anyway. But I rank my enjoyment of stories (including TV, movies, comics, etc) based on how much I buy into the illusion that there is a reality to the characters that trancends the part we are shown. Shock deaths and gratuitously inexplicable changes of fortune shatter that illusion for me.

The important distinction needed here lies in the phrase, "the author killed the character." Implied by such a line is that the author, desperately in need of a death for reasons of plot, pacing and emotion, chooses a character to die. I agree with Kahuna Burger that such authorial murder diverts attention from the verisimilitude so very vital to the fantasy genre. However, equally damaging to the elaborate facade is an aura of invincibility around the characters. The same irritability at revelations of the author's tyrrany over the story arises in this situation.

Ideally, the story should kill a character, as absurd as that sounds. Deaths should always follow naturally from the narrative and plot, never reminding us of its omnipotent author. Good fiction of any type requires the invisibility of its writer. Capricious or absent character deaths undermine this basic tenet.

 

[Capellan]

I'm half-expecting a future book in the series to depict Dani finally arriving on the shores of Westoros with her invincible legions...

Hang on ... you mean she hasn't even got back there yet? How many books are out now? I read the first one when it came out and enjoyed it, but I never could work up the enthusiasm to read the second one when I realised I would need to re-read the first to have any clue who anyone was.

 

[drothgery]

Jordan can't kill off his characters. Who cares what happens, After 11 books everybody still there. Are they really in that much danger, are the bad guys really that powerful that none of Rands friends are in danger, even when they are no where near him.

Ingtar wasn't Rand's friend? Missed that. In any case, Mat's friends are clearly fair game (Nalesean). Very major characters can

Spoiler

apparently

die (Moiriane).

Spoiler

Perin's can turn against him (Aram).

The most intelligent enemy Our Heroes had (Pedron Niall) is killed in a petty power play. Aes Sedai who have been long-standing allies of Our Heroes can be murdered out of hand (Adeleas

Spoiler

or Anaiya

), or die because of overconfidence on the part of Our Heroes (

Spoiler

Vandene

). Asha'man can die in tragic circumstances (Fedwin Morr), or in a noble self-sacrifice (Eben Hopwill).

Jordan creates an insane number of characters. If the half-dozen main characters, their significant others, and two or three other people have Plot Immunity, it's not the end of the world. At least he's got a world where being a good guy isn't just a quick way to commit suicide.

 

[Pielorinho]

It's been awhile since I read ASoIaF, so my memory is a little hazy, but I definitely didn't think at the time that there was anything implausible about the Red Wedding. Of course, I was in love with the books at that point, so I was willing to give them a huge benefit of the doubt; it sounds, Kahuna, as if by that point you didn't have much patience with them.

I'm interested: did other folks find those scenes implausible? That is, were there events in them that either demanded explanation (where explanation would have been interesting and necessary), or that you're certain could not be explained plausibly?

Daniel

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Guys, Red Wedding was realistic. It was a logical consequence of Robb`s flaws and Walder`s Frey personality. Read some history if you doubt such things can happen. And Robb already lost much of his army, thanks to Bolton`s schemes.

 

[Nellisir]

The important distinction needed here lies in the phrase, "the author killed the character." Implied by such a line is that the author, desperately in need of a death for reasons of plot, pacing and emotion, chooses a character to die. I agree with Kahuna Burger that such authorial murder diverts attention from the verisimilitude so very vital to the fantasy genre. However, equally damaging to the elaborate facade is an aura of invincibility around the characters. The same irritability at revelations of the author's tyrrany over the story arises in this situation.

Yeah, that.

Everything that happens in a novel happens because that's what the author wants. Deaths demonstrate a certain "realism" to the reader, and make the "obvious" endings less obvious.

One of the first books I read that impressed me with a death was Joel Rosenberg's "The Sleeping Dragon", book one of his Guardians of the Flame series. It's your sterotypical "real-world characters get translated into a fantasy world while playing a fantasy RPG" setup -- at least until

Spoiler

one of them dies, screaming and vomiting, on the end of a spear

. It unquestionably ratchets up the tension for the rest of the story. You, as the reader, can no longer predicate with any certainty how the story will run.

 

[Eosin the Red]

I hated the Red Wedding to the core of my being... It sucked to the high heavens but it made me love the series even more. Nobody likes seeing noble heroes dying like a punk guttersnipe but Martin's world has become a tantalizing, if risky, investment precisley because even the heroes can die cruel, sensless deaths. You can't predict the future, except to say that before it is done the trail of bodies will be enormous.

 

[jasper]

yes I do like when a character gets it. other wise where is the drama? I have disagree with nellsir on Sleeping dragon. The rest of cast never died and stated dead. Of course I quit reading Joel after the 4 th book.
If I was writing Star Trek. Nimoy would have been out a job after the second movie.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Guys, Red Wedding was realistic. It was a logical consequence of Robb`s flaws and Walder`s Frey personality. Read some history if you doubt such things can happen. And Robb already lost much of his army, thanks to Bolton`s schemes.

You know, I can put my opinions out as simple fact and imply that you are uneducated if you don't agree, too. I've choosen not to, in spite of a wonderfully snarky paragraph I finished then cut.

I have tried to stick to how I react to different authorial choices and I've asked people to engage in a bit of give and take on how they react to similar ones. I thank those who have actually done that, especially those who had different reactions than me. I don't need folks telling me the right way to react to specific authors, or making broad statements on how people as a whole propperly respond to certain plot twists.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

yes I do like when a character gets it. other wise where is the drama? I have disagree with nellsir on Sleeping dragon. The rest of cast never died and stated dead. Of course I quit reading Joel after the 4 th book.
If I was writing Star Trek. Nimoy would have been out a job after the second movie.

well, more probably, a completely different character - probably one invented for II - would have died instead....

Or, given the vagauries of movie ownership and production, you would have been out of a job after the second movie.

Thanks though. I can easily tell you where the drama is for me without a main character getting it, but I see where you are coming from.