When is an enemy not an enemy?

[Diplomat123]

I would like to challenge my party with an encounter where they have to be a little more careful than usual with their blast and burst powers. I am thinking of having a group of bad guys kidnap some NPCs that need saving. The party will be facing a mixed group of enemies trying to kill them and kidnap victims who are either stationary or running around like headless chickens, but who will definitely not be their allies.

A lot of area powers target all creatures - no problem, that will clearly effect everyone. A lot target all enemies. PHB makes it clear that anything that is not your ally is your enemy in rules terms.

My question is, can a player using an area attack that effects all enemies, choose to target only some of them? A second question, i am sure i have read somewhere that you can pull your blow with any attack - can you pull your blow with some targets of the same attack, but not others?

 

[abyssaldeath]

Do the players know who they are suppose to protect and save? Are the people they are trying to save a threat to the PC's. If the answers are yes and no then they shouldn't be treated as enemies.

 

[Diplomat123]

They will know who they are trying to save, and i am not planning to have them actively attack the PCs. However, those people may not view the PCs as saviours and may be under some form of mind control.

 

[abyssaldeath]

The only answer that can be given is that you are the DM. It's within the rules that the, lets call them victims, will be targeted by enemy only powers. However, as the DM if you don't want the victims targeted by those powers they don't have to be. It all depends on how difficult you want to make the encounter.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If you take control over whom a character regards as an enemy, expect your players to be upset.

"No, you HAVE to throw daggers at those guys you want to save" is not a good way to do things.

Might I recommend merely confusing the players as to who is an ally and who isn't? Still leave the final determination in their hands though.

 

[Camelot]

The way I'd do it is to say that you decide who is your ally and who is your enemy. For example, if you start to get into a fight with another player character (for whatever reason) you can target them as an enemy until you make up. I would say that they don't have to target the victims if they don't want to.

On the other hand...have you ever seen V for Vendetta? In one scene, the "bad guy" kidnaps a number of people while the police have surrounded the building he's in. He ties up these people's arms and puts tape on their mouths and makes them wear the same cloaks, masks, and hats that he wears, so you can't tell the difference between the victims and the bad guy, so he can escape while the police are confused, because they don't want to shoot anybody because it might be a victim. Maybe you could work something like that in, and then the PCs would have to decide who they want to target.

 

[ChristopherA]

I don't recall any rule about pulling your attacks. You certainly can't pull your area attacks against some targets and not others. That would let you turn any area power into an "enemies only" attack.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Pulling your attacks simply means dealing non-lethal damage and is only applicable to monsters. It wouldn't make an AoE "enemies only", your allies would still take damage and while you might call it "non-lethal" the distinction is meaningless in the context of a PC since all it does is cause a monster to go unconscious when it is reduced to 0 hit points by an attack where the PC used the non-lethal option. A PC reduced to 0 would still be unconscious, which is what they would normally be anyway at that point.

By RAW any time you reduce a creature to 0 you can designate that it is unconscious. There are no restrictions put on this at all, it could be the result of a power use or any other situation where a player character is doing the damage. You can even make this choice on a creature by creature basis with an attack that hits multiple targets.

I'd have to say that PCs should be free to designate creatures which are not involved in the fight as allies if they want. Of course they're still going to have to do so based on what they know in-game. I'd also have to say that if someone attacks you, they're an enemy, at least temporarily.

 

[DracoSuave]

I would like to challenge my party with an encounter where they have to be a little more careful than usual with their blast and burst powers. I am thinking of having a group of bad guys kidnap some NPCs that need saving. The party will be facing a mixed group of enemies trying to kill them and kidnap victims who are either stationary or running around like headless chickens, but who will definitely not be their allies.

Allies do not have to be willing combatants with weapons and grit. All that is required is that they are voluntarily your allies, and you are voluntarily accepting them as allies.

So, prisoners that you are attempting to rescue can qualify fully as allies as, regardless of their helpless state, if you are willing and they are willing, that is enough.

So in this case, enemies-only powers can skip over them if you want them to (chances are if you want them to, they'll choose to take the benefit and not get burned. Otherwise they'd be willing to take damage for no reason)

 

[Mirtek]

If you take control over whom a character regards as an enemy, expect your players to be upset.

"No, you HAVE to throw daggers at those guys you want to save" is not a good way to do things.

It's not any different from saying "No, you HAVE to throw daggers at your close friend", if it's a power targeting all creatures.

IMO they rules for ally/enemy are specifically made the way they are to force players to be carefull while throwing area attacks in crowded places. After all they could have easily included a "neutral" faction instead of saying that all non-allies are treated as enemies even if they do not mean you ill. The existence of "enemy only" attacks is already a boon to the player characters and explicit, but also auto-excluding civilians just makes it too easy.