D&D General When the fiction doesn't match the mechanics

[Micah Sweet]

I think you are overlooking 4e and warlords. Lots of non-wound hp healing power narrative descriptions that fit the 4e definition of hit points.

Hit points (hp) measure your ability to stand up to punishment, turn deadly strikes into glancing blows, and stay on your feet throughout a battle. Hit points represent more than physical endurance. They represent your character’s skill, luck, and resolve—all the factors that combine to help you stay alive in a combat situation.

Using the inspiring word power, warlords can grant their comrades additional resilience with nothing more than a shout of encouragement.

Healing: Powers that restore hit points.

Level 2 Utility Exploits
Aid the Injured Warlord Utility 2
Your presence is both a comfort and an inspiration.
Encounter ✦ Healing, Martial
Standard Action Melee touch
Target: You or one adjacent ally
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge.

Level 5 Daily Exploits
Stand the Fallen Warlord Attack 5
You will not be denied victory! A determined strike lifts the spirits of your beleaguered allies and restores their fighting spirit.
Daily ✦ Healing, Martial,Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Effect: Each ally within 10 squares can spend a healing surge and regains additional hit points equal to your Charisma modifier.

Stand Tough Warlord Utility 6
You fortify your allies with a few words of encouragement.
Daily ✦ Healing, Martial
Minor Action Close burst 5
Targets: You and each ally in burst
Effect: The targets regain hit points equal to 10 + your Charisma modifier.

Lion’s Roar Warlord Attack 7
With a bloodcurdling roar, you swing your weapon in a wide, sweeping arc that breaks through your enemy’s defenses. The blow reinvigorates you or one of your allies in need.
Encounter ✦ Healing, Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Effect: You or one ally within 5 squares of you can spend a healing surge.
Inspiring Presence: Your ally (but not you) gains additional hit points equal to your Charisma modifier.

Defensive Rally Warlord Utility 10
You marshal your comrades and provide instructions to help them prevail.
Daily ✦ Healing, Martial
Standard Action Close burst 5
Target: Each ally in burst
Effect: Each target can spend a healing surge and make a saving throw against any single effect that a save can end. In addition, all targets gain a +2 power bonus to all defenses until the end of your next turn.

Even clerics have some healing that is consistent with inspiration instead of mending wounds.

Using the healing word power, clerics can grant their comrades additional resilience with nothing more than a short prayer.

Level 6 Utility Prayers
Bastion of Health Cleric Utility 6
You invoke a prayer that instantly fortifies one of your allies.
Encounter ✦ Divine, Healing
Minor Action Ranged 10
Target: You or one ally
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge. Add your Charisma modifier to the hit points regained.

Strengthen the Faithful Cleric Attack 7
You utter a solemn prayer as you bring your weapon down upon your foe, invoking the power of your deity to physically bolster you and nearby allies.
Encounter ✦ Divine, Healing,Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you and each ally adjacent to the target can spend a healing surge. Add your Charisma modifier to the hit points regained.

Divine Power Cleric Attack 9
You swing your weapon in a wide arc around you, creating a halo of divine energy that drives foes back while fortifying you and your allies.
Daily ✦ Divine, Healing, Radiant, Weapon
Standard Action Close burst 2
Target: Each enemy in burst you can see
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier radiant damage, and you push the target 1 square.
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you gain regeneration 5, and you and each ally within the burst gain a +2 power bonus to AC.

I'm not overlooking 4e, but it is an exception. We know this because so many times when a general statement is made about D&D, a handful of people always show up to plug 4e in contrast.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Hit points have always been a weird one, though I have managed to more or less get over it and accept that it is just a game convention. It's one reason why I thought bloodied was good, was that it explained that this was when you started to show cuts and bruises. It still didn't do much (as in, you're bloodied, you now have a -2 to attack and skill rolls) other than trigger other effects that could be beneficial or detrimental.

hit points cause issues because assassins can't assassinate some people. I feel like we need the 3e coup de grace back in 5e and poisons that kill no matter the number of hit points of the target, though perhaps not for combat purposes, which then starts bring in exceptions making things even weirder between the fiction and mechanics.

What hit points are not is an excuse to claim that simulation is meaningless because hit points exist.

 

[cbwjm]

What hit points are not is an excuse to claim that simulation is meaningless because hit points exist.

I've never seen them as an argument against simulation, but then again, when threads come up arguing about what hit points are/aren't I don't often stay and follow the conversation. Seems like one of those topics that quickly reaches the point of a few people writing post after post where they repeat the same things back at each other.

 

[Lanefan]

hit points cause issues because assassins can't assassinate some people. I feel like we need the 3e coup de grace back in 5e and poisons that kill no matter the number of hit points of the target, though perhaps not for combat purposes, which then starts bring in exceptions making things even weirder between the fiction and mechanics.

In general there need to be more things that can or do bypass hit points partly or completely. You quite rightly note poison and assassination; to which I'll add falling any significant distance*, drowning, limb (or head!) amputation, massive damage, and a fair number of specific spells.

For falling, one option might be to put the damage on a quickly-escalating multiplier as the fall diestance becomes greater e.g. the first damage die is flat, the second is x2, the third is x3, and so on until the 20th die is x20...by which point if you're still rolling then the character has WAY too many hit points!

 

[Aldarc]

What hit points are not is an excuse to claim that simulation is meaningless because hit points exist.

I don't think the issue is not that hit point somehow disprove simulation or render simulation meaningless. Instead, I think that the issue of disagreement entails what hit points are meant to simulate since some people take "simulation" to mean "simulating a realistic view of the real world" rather than "simulating a genre or fictional world."

 

[Neonchameleon]

Perhaps. You have to wonder why D&D has never described it thus.

Marketing. "Cure Wounds" sounds better than "cure exhaustion" - but given that injuries don't injure and have always been cured on timescales equivalent to recovering serious fatigue, and Gygax was very explicit that hit points weren't meat it's "Cure Wounds" and "Healing potions" that are the outliers - and consistently up-marketed in game.

 

[Voadam]

You have to wonder why D&D has never described it thus.

I'm not overlooking 4e, but it is an exception. We know this because so many times when a general statement is made about D&D, a handful of people always show up to plug 4e in contrast.

I would then suggest not saying "D&D has never" if you actually mean "D&D has done this a lot of times in 4e but generally does not in other editions." Some people might take you saying "never" as meaning "never."

Also HD on a short rest and full healing on a long rest in 5e and fighter second wind seems consistent conceptually. People do not really heal sword and arrow wounds by taking a one hour siesta short rest.

And 3.5 Unearthed Arcana reserve points.

D&D design seems to be generally developing towards options for narratively non wound healing mechanics over time/editions. With the notable exception of no 5e warlord.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't think the issue is not that hit point somehow disprove simulation or render simulation meaningless. Instead, I think that the issue of disagreement entails what hit points are meant to simulate since some people take "simulation" to mean "simulating a realistic view of the real world" rather than "simulating a genre or fictional world."

Simulating a genre and simulating an imaginary world are two very different things, and my biggest problem with the Forge is that Ron Edwards lumped them together and people started just accepting it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Marketing. "Cure Wounds" sounds better than "cure exhaustion" - but given that injuries don't injure and have always been cured on timescales equivalent to recovering serious fatigue, and Gygax was very explicit that hit points weren't meat it's "Cure Wounds" and "Healing potions" that are the outliers - and consistently up-marketed in game.

Some part of hit points has always been meat. Gygax knew that, and so do you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would then suggest not saying "D&D has never" if you actually mean "D&D has done this a lot of times in 4e but generally does not in other editions." Some people might take you saying "never" as meaning "never."

Also HD on a short rest and full healing on a long rest in 5e and fighter second wind seems consistent conceptually. People do not really heal sword and arrow wounds by taking a one hour siesta short rest.

And 3.5 Unearthed Arcana reserve points.

D&D design seems to be generally developing towards options for narratively non wound healing mechanics over time/editions. With the notable exception of no 5e warlord.

They are, and I find it very sad.