Which class will be the faveorite wrt multiclassing dips?

[hong]

In what sense? You get hit points based on what class you selected at the beginning.

Hopefully they won't diverge quite so absurdly (I'd like to see the d4, or its equivalent, go, personally), but Bob the Fighter is likely to have more hit points than Bill the Wizard or Ted the Warlock.

Well that would basically turn it into Guild Wars-style multiclassing, and I for one am quite happy with that.

Would be odd though; you could potentially have someone who starts as a fighter, gets the wizard training feat and picks almost exclusively wizard powers from then on. They get extra hp (which, if past experience can be used as a predictor, is golden) but their playstyle would be close to a wizard.

Not that I'm complaining, but it could throw people for a loop.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

My guess is that multiclassing as we know it is gone. The class you take at first level determines your defense bonuses, attack bonuses, trained skills, hit points, and so on. If you take the Class Training feat, it gives you the ability to learn powers from a second class, but your total number of powers known in each category (at-will, per-encounter, and per-day) stays the same; you get more powers to choose from, but not more powers known.

This is pretty much exactly how I think it will work. Of course there are some kinks to work out thinking about it right now (hit points for one, perhaps HP advance at the same rate for all classes?), lets hope they can do it.

 

[Dausuul]

My guess on how multiclassing works:

1. Each class has a variety of powers, special abilities, and class-specific talents.
2. A "class training" feat lets you spend a feat to take ONE power, special ability, or talent from another class. Probably from a selected list. Since this is a normal feat slot, you continue to get all the normal special abilities, powers, etc. from leveling up in your primary class.
3. "True" multiclassing will mean taking levels in another class so that you're NOT getting more abilities/etc in your primary class.
4. HOWEVER, most class-specific powers and talents will be tied to character level or prerequisite talents rather than to class level. (So a Fighter10 taking 1 level of wizard would be able to pick from the same spell list as a Wizard11.)

Why would you have "true" multiclassing (which is a bit of a misleading name, since 3E's multiclassing system didn't exist in previous editions) in such a system? What's the point? It's making two mechanics to do the same job.

We definitely have training feats that let you pick up another class's powers. As far as I can tell, that encompasses everything that multiclassing needs to encompass. 3E-style multiclassing only adds complication to the system.

Remember that the designers were talking about redesigning the multiclassing system. That implies they're doing something fairly drastic to 3E multiclassing... such as replacing it with feats.

 

[Lackhand]

Why would you have "true" multiclassing (which is a bit of a misleading name, since 3E's multiclassing system didn't exist in previous editions) in such a system? What's the point? It's making two mechanics to do the same job.

This.

My guess is that we'll have Class Training feats, and a relatively simple Retraining/Rebuilding rule (perhaps "build another character of the same race as your current one, and with any class you currently have the training for -- and the class training feat for your current class. Do please try to retain at least 50% of your powers? Check with your DM, do not operate heavy machinery, et cetera et cetera et cetera").

Class training and 3.x style multiclassing don't make a lot of sense together. Class training and previous editions' Dual-Classing go pretty well together... insofar as you're willing to accept previous editions' Dual-Classing!

 

[Ipissimus]

Sorry, guys, I don't see multiclassing as working based on the class you took at first level.

For example, lets say I take 1 level of Fighter, and then level up solely as a Wizard. I'd have max attack bonus, loads of hitpoints, etc. AND spellcasing ability up the yin-yang. Not only that, I'd know absolutely nothing about the arcane, despite being able to cast world-shattering spells, because my pathetic fighter skills never changed.

There's no real reason to do this, since (according to Races and Classes) everyone now uses the same advancement track in 4E. The big difference will be in the special bonuses from the class, gained at different levels (one per level from 1-30... that's alot of special abilities they've gotta fill out, my bet is that some of them are bonuses to saves, attack, etc.).

They've said outright that multiclassing will be different, but that's a given since the way they've designed classes is completely different to the last edition.

 

[Pssthpok]

you could be right....C'mon WotC lets have a design article on this now- I wanna know!

QFT; we're painfully lacking in a crunch update for February.

 

[Keenath]

Why would you have "true" multiclassing (which is a bit of a misleading name, since 3E's multiclassing system didn't exist in previous editions) in such a system? What's the point? It's making two mechanics to do the same job.

We definitely have training feats that let you pick up another class's powers. As far as I can tell, that encompasses everything that multiclassing needs to encompass. 3E-style multiclassing only adds complication to the system.

Not at all. Powers aren't the only thing that comes with a class.

If you look at the SWSE system, you have these "talent" things that represent abilities you gain. Wizards would have metamagic talents; Fighters have their weapon specializations; and so on.

The powers you get from Class Training would be more along the lines of "make an attack; if you hit, the enemy is knocked prone" or "you deal Xd6 fire damage in a 4-square sphere". Class levels mean you get the whole thing, from powers to HP to special class abilities and defense/attack bonuses. Class training means just a single power.

 

[kennew142]

Well that would basically turn it into Guild Wars-style multiclassing, and I for one am quite happy with that.

Would be odd though; you could potentially have someone who starts as a fighter, gets the wizard training feat and picks almost exclusively wizard powers from then on. They get extra hp (which, if past experience can be used as a predictor, is golden) but their playstyle would be close to a wizard.

Not that I'm complaining, but it could throw people for a loop.

Odds are that the bonus feats from advancing as a fighter (for example) will have to be taken from the bonus fighter feats table, leaving such a character only the basic feats (one per three character levels) to choose wizard training feats. IMO this is a good thing, but it will not make the character anywhere near as powerful a wizard as taking levels in wizard would.

 

[Keenath]

I think I see where some of the confusion may be coming from.

Some people seem to think that you take Wizard Training once and then can freely select Wizard powers for the rest of your career.

I thought you take Wizard Training and point at a particular power, and that power is added to your stable, and if you want a second wizard power, you have to take the Training feat again (so that it works a lot like Extra Invocation or similar feats).

Is there any evidence to support one view or the other?

 

[kennew142]

I think I see where some of the confusion may be coming from.

Some people seem to think that you take Wizard Training once and then can freely select Wizard powers for the rest of your career.

I thought you take Wizard Training and point at a particular power, and that power is added to your stable, and if you want a second wizard power, you have to take the Training feat again (so that it works a lot like Extra Invocation or similar feats).

Is there any evidence to support one view or the other?

I had assumed that the wizard training feat would be required each time you wanted to dip into the wizard's talent/power selection. If it is a one time thing, it would seem to be very powerful for a feat.