Who Makes WotC's Adventures?

There are now three large hardcover adventures for D&D 5th Edition. There's the two-part Tyranny of Dragons campaign produced by Kobold Press; there's Princes of the Apocalypse, from Sasquatch Game Studios; and there's the imminent Out of the Abyss, from Green Ronin publishing. All of these are official, hardcover adventures produced for WotC by third party companies. But how does that actually work? What is the relationship between the company producing the products and the company publishing them? WotC's Jeremy Crawford told me yesterday that the term "outsourcing" is innacurate when it comes to describing this arrangement.

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If we go back a bit to when I asked Kobold Press' Wolfgang Baur about the process, he told me that "the 5E adventures are produced as a combination of studio work and WotC oversight." He went on to describe it in a little more detail, highlighting a to-and-fro between the companies -- "we'd do some portion of the work, then we would get feedback from WotC on Realmslore, or story beats, or mechanics. Then we did more of the design, and got feedback from swarms of playtesters. Then we turned over another version for feedback on the art and layout. And so forth. It was iterative..." So collaboration clearly takes place all the way through the process.

He describes Kobold Press role as "the heavy lifting in design, development, and editing" with WotC having "crucial input and set the direction for what they wanted".

Moving ahead to now, WotC Jeremy Crawford observes that "It's bizarre to see a few posters on ENWorld mistake our [D&D 5E] collaborations as outsourcing. Each book has been a team effort." The input from WotC isn't just greenlighting the book at various stages; as Jeremy tells us "Our reviews are deep. We create the story & the concept art. We write portions of the books. We design mechanics. Etc.!" As he also points out, the credits page of each book tells us who contributed to each.

So there we have it. These books aren't outsourced to third parties in any traditional sense of that word; the books are written as a collaborative effort with writing and more done by both companies.

 

[Mistwell]

Poking fun at people who aren't allowed to respond isn't exactly kind, Mistwell.

I didn't know at the time I posted it that he could not respond, and talked (kindly) to him in private about it to make sure there was no offense. He and I are good.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

It's not necessarily clear yet who from Green Ronin worked on Out of the Abyss, but Owen K.C. Stephens and Chris Pramas are also both former WotC employees.
Pauper

Just because my name has been evoked: I am not one of the people who worked on this product. I desperately wanted to; I am still a huge fan of D&D, but simply couldn't make the tome. So I remain a Pathfinder-developer for the moment.

As for "outsourcing," it's worth noting that within the RPG industry, the use of freelancers is not normally spoken of in terms of outsourcing. Note that I am not just talking about freelance writing. I have been paid, as a freelancer, to conceive of and outline products (turning a company's vague desire to have a book that fills some business need, which may be "an adventure" or "a weekly line of products" or "A 300-page book"), name products (literally just paid to come up with better names for nearly-finished products), write the text for products, develop products (take finished text and make it better from a narrative, poetry, and rules perspective, separate from actual editing - which is often done with freelance editors), write an art order (which is then drawn by freelance artists, and may well be contracted and overseen by a freelance art director), work with a layout artist to establish a graphic design and match a desired level or aesthetic or utility (who is often a freelancer), write marketing text, and do a post-mortem analysis to figure out where a product went wrong.

In short I have personally been paid as a freelancer, or have worked with someone acting in a freelance capacity, to do every possible step in the creation of an rpg book. Not all of those were for WotC, but within the industry the idea of freelancing out even *most* of a book is just "hiring freelancers," unlike, say, when another company (say WizKids) literally oversees the production of a licenses product (say, pre-painted miniatures). All of my actual D&D credits are as a freelancer. Some of those D&D credits I was given, as *freelance* work, while working for WotC.

Those are some pretty blurred lines.

In the case of WotC's current projects, rather than hire separate freelancers for every step they don't want to do in-house, they seem to have contracted with other RPG companies that include people with experience they trust, to have all those freelance tasks handled by one interconnected group. And as long as every step of every process is either handled in-house by WotC staff (such as deciding on the name, topic, length, outline, quality of paper, level of color, *number* of illustrations - all things I would expect them to do in house even when working with a freelance design team - though again I don’t know because I wasn't working on any of these projects) or has regular input and feedback (and by regular I mean monthly to bi-weekly, which is WAY more than freelance writers get - when I am freelance writing, I normally have either *0* points opt contact before the end of the project, is *one* milestone that may or may not generate any commentary), then when talking to other rpg folks I would still call it a "WotC book" done with freelancers, rather than calling it "outsourced."

Indeed, given how little feedback I ever got when I was a freelance writer, and how often freelancers are used to outline, develop, edit, art direct, illustrate, lay out, and market a book, it's possible (though again, I cannot speak from direct experience) that on-staff WotC people were more directly involved in the various stages of creation of these books than the typical 3.5e or 4e release.

And if that were the case, or even if the level of involvement was essentially unchanged from previous editions, I'd understand finding it “bizarre” when people suddenly start referring to freelance-produced projects (even if the freelancers are a corporate entity that gets its own recognition, rather than just a collection of individuals) as “outsourcing,” even if that model seems to meet some common definitions of that term.

 

[Zil]

My two cents on the outsourcing thing is definitely outsourced given just how much of the work the contracting companies are doing. They've gone well beyond what Paizo does with hiring freelancers or what WoTC did back in 3E days. It goes well beyond just writing the adventure text. That said, what does it matter so long as people enjoy the adventures? The authors involved are all very capable writers with a lot of experience in the industry, much or it at WoTC (and in some cases also at TSR). With the greatly reduced staff these days at WoTC they really do need to work with partners outside the company and this model seems to be working so far for them.

 

[Zil]

J
And if that were the case, or even if the level of involvement was essentially unchanged from previous editions, I'd understand finding it “bizarre” when people suddenly start referring to freelance-produced projects (even if the freelancers are a corporate entity that gets its own recognition, rather than just a collection of individuals) as “outsourcing,” even if that model seems to meet some common definitions of that term.

I think you just hit on what set off the outsourcing thread. It's because the adventures and supplements were in partnership with Kobold Press, Green Ronin and Sasquatch Games. So it didn't appear to be individual freelancers like you would see in your typical product. It doesn't matter that these companies are actually really small with only a very small handful of permanent employees. Because they are now companies, it is easier to see what is going as the outsourcing of services from Company A to Company B. We don't normally think in terms of companies outsourcing services to individual B.

 

[Hussar]

/snip

Indeed, given how little feedback I ever got when I was a freelance writer, and how often freelancers are used to outline, develop, edit, art direct, illustrate, lay out, and market a book, it's possible (though again, I cannot speak from direct experience) that on-staff WotC people were more directly involved in the various stages of creation of these books than the typical 3.5e or 4e release.

And if that were the case, or even if the level of involvement was essentially unchanged from previous editions, I'd understand finding it “bizarre” when people suddenly start referring to freelance-produced projects (even if the freelancers are a corporate entity that gets its own recognition, rather than just a collection of individuals) as “outsourcing,” even if that model seems to meet some common definitions of that term.

My two cents on the outsourcing thing is definitely outsourced given just how much of the work the contracting companies are doing. They've gone well beyond what Paizo does with hiring freelancers or what WoTC did back in 3E days. It goes well beyond just writing the adventure text. That said, what does it matter so long as people enjoy the adventures? The authors involved are all very capable writers with a lot of experience in the industry, much or it at WoTC (and in some cases also at TSR). With the greatly reduced staff these days at WoTC they really do need to work with partners outside the company and this model seems to be working so far for them.

Umm, when you have someone who has worked extensively as a freelancer, for years, telling you that it's bizarre to call what WOTC is doing "outsourcing", in the post right above yours, and that it's actually not "beyond what Paizo does or what WOTC did back in 3e days", what is the source of your information?

Wouldn't it make more sense, particularly when you've now had two (three if we count Morrus who also has some experience in the industry with using freelancers) people directly contradict you, to perhaps reconsider your opinion?

Or, put it another way, would you call everything EN Publishing does to be outsourced?

 

[Celtavian]

Just wanted to point this out:
View attachment 69437
So, who "made" the books. I guess I'd have to say them.

Expanding on that, the words of Wolfgang Baur, Steve Winter, and Alexander Winter were edited & developed by Kobold Press staff. Sometimes heavily, as Rise of Tiamat doesn't include a writing credit from Wolfgang Baur, as he edited out all his contributions to the book. The art was ordered by Kobold Press. The maps were ordered by Kobold Press. The playtesting feedback was handled by Kobold Press. They even formatted the book. (The difference in paper quality is might even be because of their involvement and the cost of glossy.)

I've made the analogy of movies before. WotC is the main studio. There are the studio heads in charge of the film. They plan the movie and then hire a screenwriter to write that movie. Then they hire a director to film that movie. Then they hire an editor to order the scenes and pick shots. They're involved in every step of the process, and sometimes even need to approve changes and rewrites.
Studio interference is often held up as a purely negative thing. And it can be bad when silly studio execs (or producers) place curious demands on a film. But a lot of films have succeeded because of a steady studio hand. You can attribute the overall success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe to the studio.
But the individual films are still the creation of their individual directors, and their success or failure lies with them. No one every really goes to a movie because it's from the same studio as another hit.

And what exactly do you have a problem with? Or are you just trying to call Crawford out on something for no particularly good reason other than to do it?

A Marvel movie is still considered a Marvel movie no matter what director they use. They reason they hire a director is to create a successful movie. Why is that any different with WotC? Hiring successful RPG freelancers is what they do. Making a good business decision of who to hire to produce an adventure somehow takes away from the success of WotC or their part in the process? At the end of the day it is the WotC name and the WotC product attached to the final product. If the freelancer does a good job, he gets future worker. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

It always works that way. I have no idea why you're suddenly making a stink about it. What exactly is your point? What is your beef? Or do you just feel like arguing?

 

[Celtavian]

And THIS quote annoys me to no end. I'm sorry is WOTC a school kid getting picked on by a bully or a company getting negative feedback? WOTC is a company. Companies, especially on the internet, have plenty of negative feedback. ALL companies get it. So WOTC can either put on their big boy pants or a helmet or get out of the business if they can't take it.

Feedback is not what you're giving. It is needless criticism.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I think you just hit on what set off the outsourcing thread. It's because the adventures and supplements were in partnership with Kobold Press, Green Ronin and Sasquatch Games. So it didn't appear to be individual freelancers like you would see in your typical product. It doesn't matter that these companies are actually really small with only a very small handful of permanent employees. Because they are now companies, it is easier to see what is going as the outsourcing of services from Company A to Company B. We don't normally think in terms of companies outsourcing services to individual B.

Yeah you just hit the nail on the head Zil.

I guess that the RPG industry gets to redefine what outsourcing / not outsourcing is for them while the rest of the world has this idea of what outsourcing is in any other case.
For me I consider it freelancing (individuals) to outsourcing (company). Case in point, where I work about 10 years ago they eliminated our mailroom and outsourced those services to Canon. Whereas our Creative Services dept sometimes falls behind or takes on a project that will need one or two extra hands and will hire one or two individuals not affiliated with each other to pick up the slack for the length of that project. Sometimes maybe longer.

The first instance is considered to have been outsourced and the second to have hired freelancers.

Now people are going to argue the point to the contrary, which is their prerogative. But when I saw that Kobold Press and Green Ronin were working on adventures for 5E? My mind having worked in non-RPG industry capacity for over 20 years immediately went to "Outsource" as opposed to "Freelance". If it had been Wolfgang Baur or Steve Kenson or Chris Premas writing adventures for 5E I would have thought "freelance".

I think that it's interesting that so many people are hell bent on telling each other that they're wrong for thinking a certain way even though out in the world (meaning outside of the RPG industry) if I'd explained it in exactly the same way a lot of people would have labeled it the same or come to the same conclusion. Which is in fact what I did when I spoke to our manager in Creative Services and one of our Conference Managers both of whom hire freelancers and outsource Conference Services from time to time.

None of this is to say what WOTC is doing is BAD. If I were playing 5E I'd be ecstatic that Kobold Press and Green Ronin were writing material for 5E. That's actually a GOOD THING.

Okay I just needed to say my piece. Back to tearing each other's throats out for incorrect nomenclature.

 

[Hussar]

So, let me see if I understand this right [MENTION=9213]ShinHakkaider[/MENTION].

I hire five freelancers to do a project, and that's not outsourcing.

I hire a company with five employees to do a product and that is outsourcing.

Is that what you're arguing?

 

[Zil]

Umm, when you have someone who has worked extensively as a freelancer, for years, telling you that it's bizarre to call what WOTC is doing "outsourcing", in the post right above yours, and that it's actually not "beyond what Paizo does or what WOTC did back in 3e days", what is the source of your information?

Wouldn't it make more sense, particularly when you've now had two (three if we count Morrus who also has some experience in the industry with using freelancers) people directly contradict you, to perhaps reconsider your opinion?

Or, put it another way, would you call everything EN Publishing does to be outsourced?

Couple of points:

1) I initially wrote my post before Owen's made it through. He probably started his post well before mine because his post was much longer. I didn't see his post appear until after mine was completed.

2) That said, I kind of did revisit things in my followup post which brought up one idea on why the whole outsourcing debate has been bubbling over in the first place, namely because instead of freelancers being hired we now have companies (very small companies granted).

And I guess point number three is we're all entitled to our own opinions. Just because A, B and C believe X is true does not mean that everyone else is compelled to fall into line.

At the end of the day, why does it matter? Like I said in my original post, liking the final adventure is the important thing.