Who Makes WotC's Adventures?

There are now three large hardcover adventures for D&D 5th Edition. There's the two-part Tyranny of Dragons campaign produced by Kobold Press; there's Princes of the Apocalypse, from Sasquatch Game Studios; and there's the imminent Out of the Abyss, from Green Ronin publishing. All of these are official, hardcover adventures produced for WotC by third party companies. But how does that actually work? What is the relationship between the company producing the products and the company publishing them? WotC's Jeremy Crawford told me yesterday that the term "outsourcing" is innacurate when it comes to describing this arrangement.

There are now three large hardcover adventures for D&D 5th Edition. There's the two-part Tyranny of Dragons campaign produced by Kobold Press; there's Princes of the Apocalypse, from Sasquatch Game Studios; and there's the imminent Out of the Abyss, from Green Ronin publishing. All of these are official, hardcover adventures produced for WotC by third party companies. But how does that actually work? What is the relationship between the company producing the products and the company publishing them? WotC's Jeremy Crawford told me yesterday that the term "outsourcing" is innacurate when it comes to describing this arrangement.

outoftheabyss.jpg


If we go back a bit to when I asked Kobold Press' Wolfgang Baur about the process, he told me that "the 5E adventures are produced as a combination of studio work and WotC oversight." He went on to describe it in a little more detail, highlighting a to-and-fro between the companies -- "we'd do some portion of the work, then we would get feedback from WotC on Realmslore, or story beats, or mechanics. Then we did more of the design, and got feedback from swarms of playtesters. Then we turned over another version for feedback on the art and layout. And so forth. It was iterative..." So collaboration clearly takes place all the way through the process.

He describes Kobold Press role as "the heavy lifting in design, development, and editing" with WotC having "crucial input and set the direction for what they wanted".

Moving ahead to now, WotC Jeremy Crawford observes that "It's bizarre to see a few posters on ENWorld mistake our [D&D 5E] collaborations as outsourcing. Each book has been a team effort." The input from WotC isn't just greenlighting the book at various stages; as Jeremy tells us "Our reviews are deep. We create the story & the concept art. We write portions of the books. We design mechanics. Etc.!" As he also points out, the credits page of each book tells us who contributed to each.

So there we have it. These books aren't outsourced to third parties in any traditional sense of that word; the books are written as a collaborative effort with writing and more done by both companies.
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Finally, with complete respect for the moderators and Morrus in particular, I'm not sure the message given (that WotC will stop posting if the content of what they post gets challenged critically) was the best response.

I agree. If that were something I'd ever said, I'd be horribly embarrassed. :)
 

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Winterthorn

Monster Manager
IMHO the term "outsourced" is loaded with negativity for many North Americans who've witnessed good paying jobs lost to cheaper labour overseas, often resulting in poorer quality and more junk for consumers. I think Jeremy was trying to steer people away from any negative conotations that come built-in to the term. Ultimately what WotC says is irrelevant IMO, what they actually do is what matters (ye olde 'actions speak louder than words'). The fact that they are working hands-on with third parties, and not acting like aloof lords issuing edicts to vassals (yes I'm exaggerating, lol), is encouraging to me.
 
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oakthorne

First Post
Wow. This thread is quite a ride. ;)

I'm Joseph Carriker. I'm one of the Ronins that worked on Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. I've been a freelance writer for fifteen years, and I will say that Wizards was more directly involved at every stage of execution than most companies I've worked for, from concept to outline to review of every draft (and there were plenty of those).

If you think that Wizards is just pushing money at another company and then slapping their logo onto the book, you are wrong, sorry. What they are doing is taking advantage of the fact that they have teams of people who are accustomed to working with one another already, and leveraging that in a creative way, and they honestly ought to be commended for doing so. It's smart.

Anyway. Just thought I'd drop a line. Haven't been part of EN World since my Scarred Lands days. :)
 

HobbitFan

Explorer
Thanks for the clarification and insight Joseph.
It's good to hear stuff from people actually involved.
I'm very happy that Green Ronin got a chance to work on and contribute to 5E.
 

Icon_Charlie

First Post
Wow. This thread is quite a ride. ;)

I'm Joseph Carriker. I'm one of the Ronins that worked on Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. I've been a freelance writer for fifteen years, and I will say that Wizards was more directly involved at every stage of execution than most companies I've worked for, from concept to outline to review of every draft (and there were plenty of those).

If you think that Wizards is just pushing money at another company and then slapping their logo onto the book, you are wrong, sorry. What they are doing is taking advantage of the fact that they have teams of people who are accustomed to working with one another already, and leveraging that in a creative way, and they honestly ought to be commended for doing so. It's smart.

Anyway. Just thought I'd drop a line. Haven't been part of EN World since my Scarred Lands days. :)

Would it been better just to stated the obvious that WotC is outsourced certain projects and is in charge of of said project for quality control? Sounds a lot better than the spin doctoring of business speak that is bantering around on this topic.

I think it would actually.
 

Galendril

Explorer
Would it been better just to stated the obvious that WotC is outsourced certain projects and is in charge of of said project for quality control? Sounds a lot better than the spin doctoring of business speak that is bantering around on this topic.

I think it would actually.

Nope. Mr. Carriker stated it perfectly.
 

Cybit

First Post
Wow. This thread is quite a ride. ;)

I'm Joseph Carriker. I'm one of the Ronins that worked on Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. I've been a freelance writer for fifteen years, and I will say that Wizards was more directly involved at every stage of execution than most companies I've worked for, from concept to outline to review of every draft (and there were plenty of those).

If you think that Wizards is just pushing money at another company and then slapping their logo onto the book, you are wrong, sorry. What they are doing is taking advantage of the fact that they have teams of people who are accustomed to working with one another already, and leveraging that in a creative way, and they honestly ought to be commended for doing so. It's smart.

Anyway. Just thought I'd drop a line. Haven't been part of EN World since my Scarred Lands days. :)

Heh - can also confirm that a) this is pretty much what Paizo does and b) WotC has been way more involved than Paizo so far. I also sort of think this is Wizards' way of supporting 3PP indirectly if they can't go down the OGL route. Give them direct business and way more exposure than most of them would get making their own adventures. If WotC is outsourcing, then the entire TTRPG market outsources.

Is this thread really needed any more? This feels like confirmation bias abuse; with the folks who don't like WotC trying to twist words and intent in order to rage at WotC more (and ignore that their favorite TTRPG company has done and keeps doing the same thing, end of story).
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Would it been better just to stated the obvious that WotC is outsourced certain projects and is in charge of of said project for quality control? Sounds a lot better than the spin doctoring of business speak that is bantering around on this topic.


No. However, it *would* be better to stay away from calling a professional who actually worked on a project... well, a liar.

I *strongly* suggest everyone stay far, far away from such accusations from the remainder of the thread. I hope that's easily understandable.

 

JeffB

Legend
Wow. This thread is quite a ride. ;)

I'm Joseph Carriker. I'm one of the Ronins that worked on Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. I've been a freelance writer for fifteen years, and I will say that Wizards was more directly involved at every stage of execution than most companies I've worked for, from concept to outline to review of every draft (and there were plenty of those).

If you think that Wizards is just pushing money at another company and then slapping their logo onto the book, you are wrong, sorry. What they are doing is taking advantage of the fact that they have teams of people who are accustomed to working with one another already, and leveraging that in a creative way, and they honestly ought to be commended for doing so. It's smart.

Anyway. Just thought I'd drop a line. Haven't been part of EN World since my Scarred Lands days. :)

Thanks for giving some insight.

How involved has Ed Greenwood been with this (mini) Setting book?

Are there any other author credits you can share? I have asked a few times, and no-one seems to know, or wants to say, maybe.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Spin doctors just try to make the truth more palatable. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it backfires when it's too cynical or transparent.

Avoiding terms loaded with negative connotations is pretty basic and understandable spin doctoring, I'd think, and not at all cynical.

But it's not lying. Neither is pointedly staying 'on message,' nor is using jargon.
 

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