D&D General Why do people like Alignment?

I'm way late to this thread, but I've just never had any issues crop up with alignment. Sure, when I first started playing back at the very end of 2E (D&D Adventure Game boxed set) we would adhere pretty strictly to alignments, but as I grew up I realized people are more complex than that just as OP said.

Alignments, to me, suggest the overall ruling tendencies of the character. That doesn't mean a Lawful Good Cleric won't lie or steal and it doesn't mean that a Chaotic Evil Goblin can't show mercy towards a wounded captive.
We did when we were kids.

Waldo says yeah, “let’s play good guys” then proceeds to steal from the party or do violence to peasants.

Or, the DM and I disagreed about LG paladins and prostitutes.

As grown ups people are more relaxed, understand cultural issues more broadly. Just had not been a problem since JR high or early high school.

Then again, we have less play which forces horrible moral choices. If they come up it’s organically, not because the dm is trying to catch us and mess with us about our choice.

Alignment issues are people at the table problems in my experience. Ymmv

The mechanics of a holy sword of yore don’t stress me.
 

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Do you have anything to actually add on a discussion about alignment?

If not, how is this any better than anything else not actually discussing alignment?

Because it seems to me that the discussion about alignment played out quite some time ago. If you think differently, why not...discuss that?

I already gave my thoughts on alignment. I think it can be a useful tool for some people running the character (or monster for the DM). Meanwhile you've hijacked yet another thread with your personal pet peeve. It's okay to let a thread die if it's run it's course, sometimes it's just better to ...
let it go GIF
 

We did when we were kids.

Waldo says yeah, “let’s play good guys” then proceeds to steal from the party or do violence to peasants.

Or, the DM and I disagreed about LG paladins and prostitutes.

As grown ups people are more relaxed, understand cultural issues more broadly. Just had not been a problem since JR high or early high school.

Then again, we have less play which forces horrible moral choices. If they come up it’s organically, not because the dm is trying to catch us and mess with us about our choice.

Alignment issues are people at the table problems in my experience. Ymmv

The mechanics of a holy sword of yore don’t stress me.

I've absolutely seen people who for some reason think it's fun to punish people for their alignment choice, especially paladins back when they had to be LG. A mod forcing characters to choose between two equally awful choices is not a moral dilemma, it's not "edgy", it's just going out of your way to f*** over some player's choice.
 

A DM is essential. But so are players. I have a lot of free time and would love to DM more, but like just happened Wednesday, a player whose house we game at wasn't feeling well, so there was no game.

While I have admitted that I've never particularly liked the idea of ceding authority to a player, making concessions to keep the players happy (thus allowing me to have a game, as opposed to sitting at home making forum posts, among other distractions) is paramount. It's true, the DM does the most work to make a game work, but players are necessary to make a game happen in the first place. I've seen DM's lose sight of that, and the consequences.

Everyone is a player in the game in the end. That one player has different responsibilities doesn't change this (I believe someone upthread brought up the Banker in Monopoly as an example. The guy who runs the monsters in Descent would be another one). A lot of virtual ink has been spilled pointing out that the DM has to have fun in the game just as much as the players, but one player's fun should not come at the expense of others.

Matt Colville had a video once about a moment that broke his heart as a DM, when something one player did caused another player to comment something to the effect of: "I didn't know D&D was a game where one player's fun could prevent another's". In the moment, I can lose sight of that, but once I realize it, I make amends.

A few examples-

I had a player be affected by a strange magical creature that polymorphed their hands into crab claws. The player's character was a Changeling, so they asked if they could use their powers to turn their claws into hands. Initially, I said no, but between sessions I realized that, because of the way the game was progressing, their Changeling abilities hadn't been very useful. So I relented by next session.

Last week, I found myself running a Pathfinder 1e game. While I enjoy Pathfinder 1e as a player, I'm definitely burned out at GMing the game. But making the players learn a new system (be it 5e, ToV, or Draw Steel) felt like it would be a hindrance to everyone having fun, so I chose a system everyone knew.

I had told the players that I was aiming for a more casual (even a bit silly) game, and asked them to make...less than optimized characters. They got into a fight with zombies and were struggling with their DR, and it was looking like they might TPK and the players were getting somewhat fatalistic. After a quick bio break, I came back to the table and announced that I was going to just ignore the DR for the rest of the fight, which allowed them to win, and everyone seemed happier as a result. I know a lot of DM's who would be horrified at the thought of giving players a break, lol, but I just didn't see how it would serve anyone for things to go on as they did- and after all, if their characters were unoptimized and thus lacked slashing weapons, that was kind of on me, wasn't it?

Another thing that happened was that the group's Arcanist kept knocking enemies prone with their Magic Missile (thanks to the Toppling Missile Feat). They told the party's Ninja that they could get their Sneak Attack against prone targets.

That's wrong and I was about to say so, but then it occurred to me that it wasn't a big deal. There were going to be lots of times that she'd be denied Sneak Attack in the future, and why not let the party synergize together? So I kept my mouth shut.

Maybe it's not the same kind of thing as is being discussed, but I feel it's at least adjacent. Too often, as a DM, I can get too caught up in not wanting to let players get away with murder, lol, because letting them be creative has come back to bite me in the rump many a time. But letting players be creative is the reason we're playing a TTRPG and not a video game! It's like the classic scenario of the DM who wails that his players only ever use things on their character sheet "why don't they try swinging on chandeliers?", they'll cry.

And then the first time a player tries to do something innovative, the DM is like "Ok, if you make your attack roll with disadvantage, and make a DC 15 Acrobatics check, you can Dash as a bonus action using the chandelier, but after the attack, you'll provoke an opportunity attack". Then wonders why the player says "uh, you know what, I think I'll just throw a dagger this turn and move as close as I can".
 


Personally I do not care what my player's character's alignments are. Alignments to me are to be used or ignored by the person running the character or monster as they see fit. So if someone has LE on their character sheet and never betrays the party, never commits a truly evil act*, but is "struggling with their inner demons" so be it. I'll do what I can to make the game enjoyable for the player and the group
I don't care what's on their sheets, either. They can write down CG, LCNGE, or nothing at all. I'm not concerned with that.

All I need to know is what actions they take within the fiction and the fiction will respond to those actions. If someone has LG written down and just hacks down some old lady for walking slowly, I'm not going to be like, "Change that to CE!!!!" The game world, though, will start a manhunt to find the murderer.

Alignment is just a roleplaying aid for myself and the players.
* I do have a "no evil" rule for my game simply because I, and my wife who plays in all my home campaigns, don't enjoy playing in a group with evil characters.
I don't have a no evil rule, but I do require evil PCs to find someone to get along and not betray the group. Nor can they play stupid evil and run around just murdering people and whatnot. Basically, you can be evil, but don't destroy the campaign over it.
 

I don't care what's on their sheets, either. They can write down CG, LCNGE, or nothing at all. I'm not concerned with that.

All I need to know is what actions they take within the fiction and the fiction will respond to those actions. If someone has LG written down and just hacks down some old lady for walking slowly, I'm not going to be like, "Change that to CE!!!!" The game world, though, will start a manhunt to find the murderer.

Alignment is just a roleplaying aid for myself and the players.

I don't have a no evil rule, but I do require evil PCs to find someone to get along and not betray the group. Nor can they play stupid evil and run around just murdering people and whatnot. Basically, you can be evil, but don't destroy the campaign over it.
Well said.

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I've absolutely seen people who for some reason think it's fun to punish people for their alignment choice, especially paladins back when they had to be LG. A mod forcing characters to choose between two equally awful choices is not a moral dilemma, it's not "edgy", it's just going out of your way to f*** over some player's choice.
Hahaha not a fan of that crap
 


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