D&D General Why Editions Don't Matter

[pemerton]

Who is the "pro-D&D" side? Does that imply that someone who thinks that editions do matter is anti-D&D? I mean, I spent 5+ years posting on these boards when the main game I ran was 4e D&D, and in just about every thread had someone - sometimes including posters in this thread - telling me why my game was terrible, why it wasn't real RPGing, etc. Were they pro-D&D, trying to tear down my game as part of their edition war? Was I pro-D&D?

At the moment I have an active Torchbearer campaign and multiple active Burning Wheel campaigns. All of them take place in Greyhawk. Given that I own just above everything ever published for Greyhawk by TSR, plus some stuff published for Greyhawk by WotC, I'm confident that I have more Greyhawk material and Greyhawk familiarity than most others posting in this thread. Does that mean I'm anti-D&D?

That whole framing is just bizarre to me.

 

[pemerton]

The discussion in the one-D&D subforum about abilities that recharge when initiative is rolled took me back to @gorice's remarks about "incompleteness".

In 5e D&D initiative is rolled as part of the procedure for resolving a combat encounter. From the Basic PDF, p 69:

A typical combat encounter is a clash between two sides, a flurry of weapon swings, feints, parries, footwork, and spellcasting. The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns. A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world. During a round, each participant in a battle takes a turn. The order of turns is determined at the beginning of a combat encounter, when everyone rolls initiative. . . .

Initiative determines the order of turns during combat. When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. . . .

Combat Step by Step
1. Determine surprise. The DM determines whether anyone involved in the combat encounter is surprised.
2. Establish positions. The DM decides where all the characters and monsters are located. . .
3. Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls initiative, determining the order of combatants’ turns.​

But who gets to decide that combat has started, and hence that initiative needs to be rolled? The rules don't seem to say.

 

[Imaro]

Sure. But IMO, it doesn’t really matter who did it last or first when we all just want it to end.

I wasn't debating last or first I was speaking to something that happened here and now and was "liked" by quite a few posters.

 

[FrogReaver]

I wasn't debating last or first I was speaking to something that happened here and now and was "liked" by quite a few posters.

Last = now.

 

[FrogReaver]

But who gets to decide that combat has started, and hence that initiative needs to be rolled? The rules don't seem to say.

The rules clearly say it's the DM. The players can force the issue by declaring their PC attacks enemies.

 

[FrogReaver]

Who is the "pro-D&D" side? Does that imply that someone who thinks that editions do matter is anti-D&D? I mean, I spent 5+ years posting on these boards when the main game I ran was 4e D&D, and in just about every thread had someone - sometimes including posters in this thread - telling me why my game was terrible, why it wasn't real RPGing, etc. Were they pro-D&D, trying to tear down my game as part of their edition war? Was I pro-D&D?

I think you know exactly what I meant because you have complained and/or been actively involved in threads where the exact thing I'm referencing was complained about numerous times.

 

[FrogReaver]

But who gets to decide that combat has started, and hence that initiative needs to be rolled? The rules don't seem to say.

I spent 5+ years posting on these boards when the main game I ran was 4e D&D

How can one spend 5+ years playing D&D (any edition) and still be confused about who the rules say make the call for initiative to be rolled?

 

[ReshiIRE]

pemerton's point was that the rules in 5e, at-least in the Basic PDF, are vague. You either intuitively or have to be told by those who played before that it is the DM that decides combat has started.

Unless anything has been cut from the quote, I also think it's not clear from the text who declares it, even if it is obvious the DM does.

Consider Pathfinder 2e's rules, re: Encounter Mode:

When the GM calls for it, you’ll roll initiative to determine your place in the initiative order, which is the sequence in which the encounter’s participants will take their turns. Rolling initiative marks the start of an encounter. More often than not, you’ll roll initiative when you enter a battle.

Here it is unambigious: rolling iniative starts an encounter, and the GM calls for it.

It is a tiny thing and I don't suspect that it would be a problem in play, but permerton's point is valid.

 

[Oofta]

You can nitpick anything and claim confusion about just about any topic. Why is 2+2=4?

The rules are quite clear. The players say what their PCs do, the DM says what happens which includes all checks. You don’t need to call it out specifically because there is no specific rule that overrides the general rule.

 

[Cadence]

You can nitpick anything and claim confusion about just about any topic. Why is 2+2=4?

The rules are quite clear. The players say what their PCs do, the DM says what happens which includes all checks. You don’t need to call it out specifically because there is no specific rule that overrides the general rule.

I'm in Chapter 9 of the PHB. Can the player say "Move to combat" or "I start combat" or the like? Reading it, I don't see
anything on a first pass that implies otherwise.

Does it solve any problems for the book to add a few words saying "The DM declares that combat has started"? Is there any time the PC moves to attack that combat and initiative wouldn't happen? (Does the DM reserve monologue time or the like?)