D&D 5E Why Greyhawk is Loved

[Zardnaar]

This thread is about why Greyhawk is loved over something like FR is "hated", at least online. IRL FR wins the loved award. Note this is just IMHO.


1. GH is less over exposed.
GH has a lot less material than FR and it has functionally been on life support since the late 80's with slight stirring in 2E and 3E. Since less people are familiar with GH less people are gonna hate it even if the ratio of love/hate is the same as say FR.

2. I suspect the ration of GH fans that love/hate the setting is less than say FR. Basically these days if you like Greyhawk or are familiar with it it means you are either a hard core fan or made the effort to look it up, either way you are probably more inclined to like the setting than the casual player who is more likely to be way more familiar with FR. Odds are you either played AD&D back in the day or are new with an interest in AD&D. Anyone who doesn't like GH probably left to FR or another setting long ago.

3. GH fans are way more likely to ignore/be unfamiliar with canon.
The hardcore GH fans basically ignore everything after the 1983 GH boxed set such as the Greyhawk Wars and the 1990's GH line. 1985 would also be another cut off point with everything after that either ignored or being very selective as to what is incorporated into the setting. 1985 being when Gary left TSR and the year Temple of Elemental Evil was printed.

4. The classic D&D adventures are associated with Greyhawk. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Greyhawk, Temple of Elemental Evil, Greyhawk, Vault of the Drow, Greyhawk, Tomb of Horrors, Greyhawk, Against the Giants, Greyhawk. Even the 3 APs in Dungeon in 3E- Shackled City, Savage Tide, Are of Worms all Greyhawk.

5. Classic D&D PHB names, Greyhawk- Bigby, Mordenkainen (AKA Gary's PC), Melf, Tenser, Nystal etc. From the DMG Vecna and Kas.

6. Drow used to be kewl before they were over exposed. They originated in Erelhei- Cinlu not Menzoberranzan.

7. Its more subtle than FR. Drow would be one example and GH has a lower power level than FR and epic levels were really level 10-14 no level 29 wizards floating around or big bads being elder brains with 42 levels. Its grim and grim and gritty, less cartoony.

8. A lot of D&Disms even if they no longer apply originate in GH. Paladins are LG, Rangers are heroic, Dwarves and Elves don't like each other, monsters are there to be slain and looted.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

I think I'll say, in regards to the points you make: "I agree with some, kinda understand some others, and disagree with a few". (e.g., I'm one of those old grognard GH'ers who started with the folio and stopped at the '83 boxed set...or, "Bullet Point #3" ).

I think there is one more thing. Greyhawk the Campaign Setting doesn't get modified if some writer at 'the company' puts out a short story where drow are all elves that "go bad and transform", for example. Every Greyhawk Campaign is different. That's the nature of it. It's actually designed that way; for the DM to add, subtract, or otherwise make it their own. Because of this, when three GH DM's get together to talk about their campaigns, they don't tend to argue about who is "right" so much as argue about why they think that their campaign interpretation/timeline is "cooler". With FR DM's? It's like a pack of starving, feral dogs in a pit!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Demetrios1453]

I love Greyhawk for the same reasons I love the Forgotten Realms: it has a deep and interesting history, with nations and cultures that interact in fascinating ways that can really drive a story or give it a rich background. Granted, they do it in quite different ways, but I don't dislike either of them for their methods...

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[jaelis]

I still think you're making up the fact that Greyhawk is loved more than FR.

But personally I like Greyhawk because it is the first campaign setting I was exposed to, and I have the big beautiful poster map for it.

 

[Zardnaar]

I still think you're making up the fact that Greyhawk is loved more than FR.

But personally I like Greyhawk because it is the first campaign setting I was exposed to, and I have the big beautiful poster map for it.

Did you miss the part in the OP where I said FR wins the IRL award?

GH cops less flak online than FR for a variety of reasons. I am speculating on what those reasons are.

 

[Soul Stigma]

It would be nice if Greyhawk was updated but unmodified. I realize this can be done manually from the old box set; just being wistful.

Thing is, when FR took off the way it did, GH became niche. So, in a sense GH is probably loved more, but by much less players. Of course that's wholly debatable and pure speculation on my part.


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[GameOgre]

Greyhawk and the realms were great.

Frankly I would like to move forward. We learned a lot of great lessons over the years since Greyhawk first say the light of day and even the Realms is dated.

I am not bad mouthing either setting. I played hundreds if not thousands of hours of both.

I'm just looking on something new that puts all those things we learned together in a wonder new setting!

to get back on Track though.............................

I do love GreyHawk for its unique take on the different types of kingdoms and the gritty feel as well as the GREAT Villains! Iuz and Vecna both are awesome bad guys!

 

[TerraDave]

Its the nostalgia and the staying power.

I associate Greyhawk less with the various official products branded "Greyhawk", and more with its presentation in various modules, Dragon magagazine, the (other) AD&D books, and what we know about EGGs original game. And a lot of the cool stuff in D&D came from there. And has yet to really be bested.

 

[Raith5]

I really like GH but I have only played the original setting back in the 80s. I have read the 3E era/From the ashes stuff, and I think this builds on the strengths of GH. I have always liked the way GH combines traditional sword&sorcery with high magic.

The big one for me is that the villains in GH are really interesting (IUZ, Great Kingdom , scarlet brotherhood, Orcs of the Pomarj etc). I think they are far more compelling than the FR's ones by contrast.

Also, I known this is really superficial, but I have always liked the geography of GH. There are so many places where you can start, compared with FR which is basically = swordcoast and dalelands IME.

 

[Shiroiken]

1. GH is less over exposed.
GH has a lot less material than FR and it has functionally been on life support since the late 80's with slight stirring in 2E and 3E. Since less people are familiar with GH less people are gonna hate it even if the ratio of love/hate is the same as say FR.

Actually Greyhawk got "over-exposed" during 3E, when it became the default setting. The most common thing I hear about Greyhawk from 3E and later players is "it's boring," because what they played was NOT actually Greyhawk, but a homebrew game that used the default 3E information.

I will agree though, that the actual setting never got anywhere near the hype and publicity that Dragonlance and FR got. Whether that was good or bad, I cannot say.

3. GH fans are way more likely to ignore/be unfamiliar with canon.
The hardcore GH fans basically ignore everything after the 1983 GH boxed set such as the Greyhawk Wars and the 1990's GH line. 1985 would also be another cut off point with everything after that either ignored or being very selective as to what is incorporated into the setting. 1985 being when Gary left TSR and the year Temple of Elemental Evil was printed.

QFT. The original idea for after the 1983 boxed set was to expand the world outside of the Flanaess, and leave 576 CY as the starting year for every group. That would allow DMs to take the (deliberately sketchy) information and make it their own, with the actions of the PCs determining the future.

4. The classic D&D adventures are associated with Greyhawk. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Greyhawk, Temple of Elemental Evil, Greyhawk, Vault of the Drow, Greyhawk, Tomb of Horrors, Greyhawk, Against the Giants, Greyhawk. Even the 3 APs in Dungeon in 3E- Shackled City, Savage Tide, Are of Worms all Greyhawk.

5. Classic D&D PHB names, Greyhawk- Bigby, Mordenkainen (AKA Gary's PC), Melf, Tenser, Nystal etc. From the DMG Vecna and Kas.

I actually think this is overrated. I've never known anyone who had an interest in Greyhawk because of this, because (with the exception of ToEE), most of those adventure were easily ported over into homebrew game. NPCs could be ported over with similar ease, if desired, because little to no information was given about them until after Gygax was fired.

6. Drow used to be kewl before they were over exposed. They originated in Erelhei- Cinlu not Menzoberranzan.

7. Its more subtle than FR. Drow would be one example and GH has a lower power level than FR and epic levels were really level 10-14 no level 29 wizards floating around or big bads being elder brains with 42 levels. Its grim and grim and gritty, less cartoony.

Amen! When I ran Vault of the Drow, I had to remind my players constantly that everything they know about Drow was wrong (because 90% came from FR). They were also amazed when I pointed out the high level of a printed Mordenkainen was only level 16 (remember, nothing after 1985 is really Greyhawk ).

8. A lot of D&Disms even if they no longer apply originate in GH. Paladins are LG, Rangers are heroic, Dwarves and Elves don't like each other, monsters are there to be slain and looted.

Not sure how I feel about this. Technically true, but that wasn't common knowledge until the age of the internet. Those D&D-isms originated in the rulebooks... which were heavily influenced by Gygax's original Greyhawk campaign. However that Greyhawk and the Greyhawk we know are completely different animals.