D&D 5E Why is "Frost Brand" rarer than "Flame Tongue"?

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Yep. And for the game as a whole, I think that's a good thing.

For Eberron, specifically, it's proving rather problematic.

Yeah, there should be Eberron magic item creation and magic economy rules, for sure. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be doing setting worldbooks for this edition...

Yeah, well, we can all stop talking about core as if that still is on the table.

OK then 'generic' or 'setting neutral' rather than 'core'.

I am expressing a desire for *official* magic item creation rules as deep and detailed as the ones in the 3e DMG.

Official, not core.

I have no problem with such... if they are setting-specific. Ones that make sense for Eberron wouldn't make sense for most other settings for example.

 

[Ancalagon]

Are the rules in the DMG so bad as to be unusable? What's wrong with them?

 

[Hussar]

Are the rules in the DMG so bad as to be unusable? What's wrong with them?

AFAIC, nothing. They work and they're fine. What they aren't, though, is particularly comprehensive or granular.

 

[ExploderWizard]

The designers basically took a dump on the desire to have magic otem pricing make sense.

Look to the thread on insane item pricing (that I can't access here, from Tapatalk) for about the only serious attempt so far AFAIK to fix this. Or at least put a band-aid on the worst stuff.

No, the designers took a dump on the idea that some game designer knows better than a DM what kinds of prices are appropriate for his or her individual campaign.

Fixed magic item prices go hand in hand with wealth by level guidelines. Both needed to be jettisoned because magic items are completely optional. That way, any DM who does want to include them in the campaign can decide how costly they are OR if they are available for purchase at all, which is as it should be.

 

[CapnZapp]

Again, you're talking about core.

Now tell me why I'm supposed to create something as intricate and vastly complex when I'd rather have WotC designers do the work for me.

In an optional book you do not have to buy.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Now tell me why I'm supposed to create something as intricate and vastly complex when I'd rather have WotC designers do the work for me.

Would you realistically expect this theoretical, intricate and vastly complex magic item pricing system, designed by WotC, to conform to your personal aesthetic and proclivities? What if, as it is the most likely, it doesn't match what you wanted in the system? Then what?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Ahglock]

To this day the 2e spell research and item creation rules are my favorite. Roughly as vague as 5e but I loved the details they had on research and library costs and size just to get the ball rolling with the 5e vague guidelines tacked onto it. If I were to make rules for this I'd basically lift the section from the complete wizards handbook with a few changes to match my economy model.(80,000 gp library just won't happen as no one has that much even at level 20)

 

[Lanliss]

Again, you're talking about core.

Now tell me why I'm supposed to create something as intricate and vastly complex when I'd rather have WotC designers do the work for me.

In an optional book you do not have to buy.

Because you want it to exist, and they apparently do not care one way or the other? Pretty much everything I have seen says they are on a slow release track, so if it is something that is low priority, like a magic item pricing book that most people make themselves as they go along, it is not likely to be picked as the next thing they have to make.

And really, which reads better?

"Flame tongue is 3,000 GP, because it says so in the Official Pricing of Magicke Items."

Or

"This world is really low on magic, and fire is hated because literally everywhere is forest, so a Flame Tongue is going to be super rare, if it even exists. The only way you could buy it is if you get lucky, and find it in a black market auction, then you still have to bid against a ton of angry warlords who want it as much as you do"

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Now tell me why I'm supposed to create something as intricate and vastly complex when I'd rather have WotC designers do the work for me.

In an optional book you do not have to buy.

That would be nice... if the pricing WotC produced fit well with your campaign. Which in the majority of cases it probably wouldn't, because the prevalence of magic is different between Eberron vs. FR vs. Mystara vs. Greyhawk vs. Dark Sun etc.

Now, a book with a bunch of different pricing tables/rules for different levels of commonality might be cool.

You could have 4-5 levels, something like:
-Quasi-industrialized magic (eg Eberron)
-Generic high magic (eg FR), probably close to 3E defaults; all but really powerful items are reasonably available have stable prices
-Potions/scrolls are available and fairly cheap; charged items and minor permanent ones like goggles of night or a +1 sword/shield/armor are reasonably available and have fairly stable prices, but very high ones; greater items are "whatever the market will bear"
-Only the weaker and more common temporary items (cheap potions and scrolls of the lowest-level spells) are sold reasonably often and have fairly stable prices; everything else is "whatever the market will bear"
-Magic items are nearly all ancient, no one is going to make magic items for sale (eg Dark Sun)