D&D General Why ya gotta be so Basic? Understanding the Resurgence of Moldvay's Basic

Excellent write-up, Snarf. As always.

It really would have been helpful when I was putting together those "Edition Experience" threads during the pandemic. I remember that the Moldvay B/X and Holmes Basic both did pretty well in those surveys--people around here have lots of fond memories of playing them back in the 80s. (And then there was one survey in particular that got shut down in like 48 hours because people couldn't control their bile.) Keeping all the different Basics straight was a challenge.

I wanted to focus on Nostalgia in those surveys, because honestly? That's the important part. People get so bent out of shape over the "correct" way to play, or the "best" rules system, or what a Ranger is and isn't, whatever. And that's all interesting enough but when your doorbell rings on game night, does anyone really care?

The years stretch on, the sun rises and sets and rises again, and everything changes. It's true of glaciers and tectonic plates, and true of my hobbies and interests. Dungeons & Dragons has been my hobby for 40+ years, and I've seen so many different editions and revisions and updates. But Holmes Basic is always going to be my favorite. It will forever be the version that comes to mind when I think "D&D," and it will be the model that all other editions will be compared to. It's my favorite. It doesn't have to be the best.
 
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. If there isn't a rule, the book has a provision that a d20 "check" against an appropriate ability score should be allowed (this was removed in Mentzer).
Aha! So that's the older edition that had it.

Did OD&D, or Holmes have it? Because sometimes I see people online talking like that was a rule from the beginning, but I never saw it before 3e. It was distinctly absent in 2e, Mentzer Basic, and the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia. And as far as I can tell, it was not present in 1e either. The Mentzer/BECMI just never had anything like it, and the closest 2e (which got it from a 1e supplement or two) got was non-weapon proficiencies.

If it was a Moldvay innovation not to be seen again until 3e, a "blink and you'll miss it" then that explains it.
 

So I never really think about Marsh, and did a quick bit of research. I knew about his early work, but what I did NOT know was that after that (his work with TSR and some Judge's Guild stuff) in the 70s and into the early '80s, he got a law degree and was a very successful litigator!

The more you know!

(And yes, he should receive more credit for that Expert set, but it's usually referred to as the Cook Expert, as in Moldvay/Cook, but maybe we should start saying Moldvay/Marsh)
Marsh also gets a bit short changed for his contribution to TSR's Marvel Superheroes RPG. Interviews with Jeff Grubb show how instrumental Marsh was in taking Grubb's design, refining it, and presenting it in a really clear way. Indeed, Grubb has credited him as basically a coauthor.

The MSHRPG's Advanced Rules (which most people incorrectly assume to be simply an expansion of the original) are quite garbled and contradictory. Marsh did not contribute to this edition. For me, that signals just how influential Marsh was in "editing."
 

Excellent write-up, Snarf. As always.

It really would have been helpful when I was putting together those "Edition Experience" threads during the pandemic. I remember that the Moldvay B/X and Holmes Basic both did pretty well in those surveys--people around here have lots of fond memories of playing them back in the 80s. (And then there was one edition in particular that got shut down in like 48 hours because people couldn't control their bile.)

I wanted to focus on Nostalgia in those surveys, because honestly? That's the important part. People get so bent out of shape over the "correct" way to play, or the "best" rules system, or whatever, and that's all interesting enough. But when your doorbell rings on game night, does anyone really care?

The years stretch on, the sun rises and sets and rises again, and everything changes. It's true of glaciers and tectonic plates, and true of my hobbies and interests. Dungeons & Dragons has been my hobby for 40+ years, and I've seen so many different editions and revisions and updates. But Holmes Basic is always going to be my favorite. It will forever be the version that comes to mind when I think "D&D," and it will be the model that all other editions will be compared to. It's my favorite. It doesn't have to be the best.
I see "nostalgia" getting thrown around as a pejorative re: B/X and the like (especially one of my gaming buddies), and it disappoints me in that it's almost preemptively used to shut down discussion.

I never played B/X in the day. Rather, I started on BECMI for a few years before a very brief tryst with 1e, finally fully switching over to 2e (where I really cut my teeth). I never even knew B/X existed until a buddy gave me the boxed set around 2000. It looked weird to me, but after getting burnt out on 3.x after a few years (probably by 2006/2007), I read through it and was deeply impressed. I just wish I could get a few of my regulars to give it an honest try.
 

Aha! So that's the older edition that had it.

Did OD&D, or Holmes have it? Because sometimes I see people online talking like that was a rule from the beginning, but I never saw it before 3e. It was distinctly absent in 2e, Mentzer Basic, and the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia. And as far as I can tell, it was not present in 1e either. The Mentzer/BECMI just never had anything like it, and the closest 2e (which got it from a 1e supplement or two) got was non-weapon proficiencies.

If it was a Moldvay innovation not to be seen again until 3e, a "blink and you'll miss it" then that explains it.
Yes, I did a deep dig on this a while ago and as far as I could determine the first time it appears in print in an official D&D product as a general system is in 1981 Basic. It's not presented as a core rule per-se, but as an optional example resolution system in the Dungeon Mastering as a Fine Art appendix of advise and guidance for new DMs, at the back.

The idea of rolling under an ability score appears in individual special cases before that (like the Dex "save" to avoid falling into a pit created with the Dig spell, in the 1978 AD&D PH, and I believe a few special situations in modules), but Moldvay is the first D&D writer to generalize it.

I never played B/X in the day. Rather, I started on BECMI for a few years before a very brief tryst with 1e, finally fully switching over to 2e (where I really cut my teeth). I never even knew B/X existed until a buddy gave me the boxed set around 2000. It looked weird to me, but after getting burnt out on 3.x after a few years (probably by 2006/2007), I read through it and was deeply impressed. I just wish I could get a few of my regulars to give it an honest try.
It really is good. For my taste, the only tweaks it more or less NEEDs are a softening of straight "at 0HP you're just dead", and some buff to Thieves, who genuinely do suck, despite their slightly faster advancement. Arguably a small boost to Fighters can be nice, if you're finding that people always choose Dwarf instead.

I have a longer list of house rules I LIKE to use, but really those are the most important ones.

Edit: Oh, and as important DM advice:
1. Use Reaction Rolls and Morale. This makes the game less lethal, less predictable, and more fun and surprising for you as well as your players.
2. Be sure to "thoughtfully place" (to quote OD&D) multiple important hoards containing gems, jewelry, and/or magic items ("various magical items and large amounts of wealth in the form of gems and jewelry", ibid) on each dungeon level prior to doing any random generation of contents per the procedure on B52. Moldvay only briefly mentions placing "special monsters" and "special treasures" before doing random generation, but he undersells it and misses the mark in his example of dungeon stocking on pages B55-56. If you just go by the tables your players will be too poor and unable to level at the pace he recommends on page B61, of a level within 3-4 sessions.
3. Be sure to include some scrolls in the treasure hoards. Especially M-U ones so they're not quite so spell-poor.
 
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So I never really think about Marsh, and did a quick bit of research. I knew about his early work, but what I did NOT know was that after that (his work with TSR and some Judge's Guild stuff) in the 70s and into the early '80s, he got a law degree and was a very successful litigator!

The more you know!

(And yes, he should receive more credit for that Expert set, but it's usually referred to as the Cook Expert, as in Moldvay/Cook, but maybe we should start saying Moldvay/Marsh)
He's also currently putting together Companion, and has had posts at the Facebook B/X group about it. His interpretation is much less like what came with Mentzer, and more a companion set of optional rules, world-building, and advice (from what I've seen, though I'm not the most knowledgeable, and hardly ever go there anymore).
 

I’ve posted about it before, that my group has moved to B/X and OSE almost exclusively (including Dolmenwood in that category), and we have not looked back. We like the “basic” elements, the lack of buttons and levers on the character sheet, and the ability to hack it and add elements (as mentioned, alternative ‘death at zero’ mechanics, alt poison systems, etc) that don’t break anything else.

I also make a lot of use of “roll under” ability scores to resolve tasks or actions, which we find causes people to think at least a little about ‘dump stats’, if we use an assign anywhere chargen.

The biggest change it created was making combats (not usually a major element of our games, we never did the 6-8 encounters a day, ever) go much quicker and smoother around the table. I mentioned in another thread awhile back that one of our players in 5e took his dog for a walk between his turn in combat one session. Totally painful in our experience, and we’ve all been playing for 40+ years.

I also enjoy reading the old rules - Od&d, BECMI, and Ad&d for game ideas, magic items, mechanics, whatever, and they can all easily adapt back into the OSE/B/X game, so I have all the material to run games I could ever ask for right at the fingertips. Plus, all the great new materials being put out for OSE, etc.
 

He's also currently putting together Companion, and has had posts at the Facebook B/X group about it. His interpretation is much less like what came with Mentzer, and more a companion set of optional rules, world-building, and advice (from what I've seen, though I'm not the most knowledgeable, and hardly ever go there anymore).
Companion+ is one of the big mistakes of D&D publishing history: even to this day, the top level of Expert is where most games wrap up. Basic-Expert is the full range of normal D&D.
 

Great topic. B/X is still my absolute favorite version of D&D for all the reasons already pointed out. Absolutely great system. Loved the focus and the roll under your stat mechanic is simple elegance.

Also has the best intro of any edition of D&D:

“The D&D game has neither losers nor winners, it has only gamers who relish exercising their imagination. The players and the DM share in creating adventures in fantastic lands where heroes abound and magic really works. In a sense, the D&D game has no rules, only rule suggestions. No rule is inviolate, particularly if a new or altered rule will encourage creativity and imagination. The important thing is to enjoy the adventure.”

Tom Moldvay
3 December 1980
 

Companion+ is one of the big mistakes of D&D publishing history: even to this day, the top level of Expert is where most games wrap up. Basic-Expert is the full range of normal D&D.
Agreed. I've actually been working on my own house rules for B/X, and one thing that I have written up is that, after level 14, level progression stops, but instead you start getting rituals for clerics and magic-users, kingdoms for fighter instead of baronies, and I haven't figured out for thieves anything yet (poor thieves :( ). Basically, stopping the treadmill, and then adding in some things from 4e with a huge twist.
 

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