D&D General Why ya gotta be so Basic? Understanding the Resurgence of Moldvay's Basic

[Mannahnin]

Companion+ is one of the big mistakes of D&D publishing history: even to this day, the top level of Expert is where most games wrap up. Basic-Expert is the full range of normal D&D.

Eh. I like to have it as an option. Even if 95% of campaigns will end before then, sometimes the stars will align and the right group will want it.

And you can also include optional and expanded content for lower levels in such a set. As with Jonathan Becker (Running Beagle Games)'s B/X Companion, for example.

 

[Parmandur]

Eh. I like to have it as an option. Even if 95% of campaigns will end before then, sometimes the stars will align and the right group will want it.

And you can also include optional and expanded content for lower levels in such a set. As with Jonathan Becker (Running Beagle Games)'s B/X Companion, for example.

Sure, but it is remarkable thst it is so consistent across decades and Editions...even with plenty of support for higher level.play! The B/X window is just...the natural rhythm for most tables.

 

[Mannahnin]

Sure, but it is remarkable thst it is so consistent across decades and Editions...even with plenty of support for higher level.play! The B/X window is just...the natural rhythm for most tables.

I wouldn't tend to say so. IME in old school TSR D&D, characters exceeding level 9 or 10 are already quite uncommon, so the level limits set for B/X and the cap of 14 are already too high for standard play. In practice almost no one runs into the caps for Elf or Dwarf and few run into the 8th level cap for a Halfling.

I ran my last three year old school campaign using 5 Torches Deep as the baseline (augmented with B/X on the DM side), and that caps at 10th. The highest PC was 9th when we finished. The Nightmares Underneath and several other NUSR games out there cap at 9th or 10th as well, which is a more natural capstone level.

Once we get into WotC editions, OTOH, advancement is faster and play into the high teens (or 20s, for 4E) is commonplace.

 

[Parmandur]

I wouldn't tend to say so. IME in old school TSR D&D, characters exceeding level 9 or 10 are already quite uncommon, so the level limits set for B/X and the cap of 14 are already too high for standard play.

I ran my last three year old school campaign using 5 Torches Deep as the baseline (augmented with B/X on the DM side), and that caps at 10th. The Nightmares Underneath and several other NUSR games out there cap at 9th or 10th as well, which is a more natural capstone level.

Once we get into WotC editions, OTOH, advancement is faster and play into the high teens (or 20s, for 4E) is commonplace.

Yet thenBeyondnuser data in the past has told a different story: the Tier 2 to Tier 3 transition is where Campaigns seem to mostly end, and new ones get stsrted.

 

[Mannahnin]

Yet the Beyond user data in the past has told a different story: the Tier 2 to Tier 3 transition is where Campaigns seem to mostly end, and new ones get started.

While not consistent with my experiences with WotC editions over the past 23-ish years (in 12-15 long campaigns my groups have routinely finished up near the system's level cap), that doesn't surprise me in the least.

Traditionally the "sweet spot" for D&D is between roughly 4th-9th level, so seeing that less-dedicated groups commonly cap out/tap around 10th makes perfect sense, and is minor reinforcement of my point about systems capping around there, rather than the unnecessarily-high cap of 14th in B/X.

 

[Piperken]

@DarkCrisis

I've enjoyed when you and others have plainly shared your joys as they've recently happened with particular games; it's moments like this that for one, I receive benefit of vicariously experiencing and find inspiring.

 

[DarkCrisis]

@DarkCrisis

I've enjoyed when you and others have plainly shared your joys as they've recently happened with particular games; it's moments like this that for one, I receive benefit of vicariously experiencing and find inspiring.

I kind of chronicle our current game in the Old D&D subforum.

Keep on the Borderlands and Palace of the Silver Princess

OSR - Introducing: The Mighty TBDs. A B/X adventure log.

I've been wanting to run BX/Basic for a long time but I figured that wouldn't float to well with the group well meh its my time and I mentioned it and they mostly seemed fine with it. We are using Labyrinth Lord ATM. Anywho. 8 Players/characters. Most of us are 40+ with three 3 20 something...

www.enworld.org

Ardun Vul

The Mighty TBD vs Arden Vul

The continuing adventures (see older thread) of my OSE/BX game: The Current Mighty TBDs: Paladin Thief Ranger Druid Hireling Dwarf Dimli Hireling Wizard Presto Hireling Cleric Niko Having started their adventures dealing with issues around The Keep on the Borderlands they eventually moved on...

www.enworld.org

 

[PHATsakk43]

Aha! So that's the older edition that had it.

Did OD&D, or Holmes have it? Because sometimes I see people online talking like that was a rule from the beginning, but I never saw it before 3e. It was distinctly absent in 2e, Mentzer Basic, and the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia. And as far as I can tell, it was not present in 1e either. The Mentzer/BECMI just never had anything like it, and the closest 2e (which got it from a 1e supplement or two) got was non-weapon proficiencies.

If it was a Moldvay innovation not to be seen again until 3e, a "blink and you'll miss it" then that explains it.

2E DMG discusses ability checks for things that saving throws aren't applicable. The verbiage in the DMG is identical in the PHB.

And while it's in DMGR1, as most know, Jennell Jaquay's first half was originally to be included in the 2E DMG and discusses how to adjudicate things when there is little chance of success, albeit the example is using percentile dice.

It's in DMGR5 Creative Campaigning chapter 3 by none other than Johnathan Tweet of 3E and 13th Age fame goes into great depth of the use of ability checks, how to weigh such checks, and so forth.

 

[sevenbastard]

B/X is a great system. So good that years ago I painstakingly copy and pasted the text from the Basic and Expert books into a word document and then edited the entire thing into one book.

BX Complete

Early in the year I finished a project but still haven’t figured out what to do with it. I took the PDFs of the Moldvay and Cook B...

perilandplunder.blogspot.com

again not merging the two PDFs but actually reformatting the entire text. But I can't do anything with them as that would be illegal.

I would gladly let WOTC offer it on Drive-thru. I don't want to get paid I just want people to have nice things.

 

[KYRON45]

I love games. Games are fun.
More people should play more games.
GAMES!!! WOOOOOOO!!!!!