Wild Mage with Practiced Spellcaster?

[Thanee]

Only the context

Yeah, why not just leave out the important parts of the descriptions... like:

However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain Hit Dice in levels of nonspellcasting classes, you might be able to apply the rest of the bonus.

So, once you select the feat, you immediately apply the bonus, or the portion, which pushes your caster level up to your Hit Dice. After that, you can apply the rest of the bonus if you gain a level in a nonspellcasting class.

It's not hanging around and waiting to get put to use (like when casting a spell with Wild Magic, when your caster level suddenly gets lowered by 3 (and then raised again by +1d6), or when suffering from an Energy Drain attack.


Sidenote: Hmm... actually... doesn't that also prevent Paladins (and such) from using Practiced Spellcaster on themselves and derive Mystic Theurges from any benefit at all from that feat?

EDIT: Hmm... at least the example seems to imply, that with "levels in nonspellcasting classes" they just refer to levels not in the spellcasting class you selected Practiced Spellcaster to apply to. This would still leave the Paladin case, however.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Judas]

Yeah, why not just leave out the important parts of the descriptions... like:



So, once you select the feat, you immediately apply the bonus, or the portion, which pushes your caster level up to your Hit Dice. After that, you can apply the rest of the bonus if you gain a level in a nonspellcasting class.

It's not hanging around and waiting to get put to use (like when casting a spell with Wild Magic, when your caster level suddenly gets lowered by 3 (and then raised again by +1d6), or when suffering from an Energy Drain attack.


Sidenote: Hmm... actually... doesn't that also prevent Paladins (and such) from using Practiced Spellcaster on themselves and derive Mystic Theurges from any benefit at all from that feat?

Bye
Thanee

Hence my example where THE FULL BONUS is already in place. Did you even read it? I think not. You just read "Only the context" and immedately jumped into what seems like a "Must be a jerk to everyone" mode and clicked reply.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Thanee's right

I agree, Judas, that the wording would indicate that this trick is legal.

It's just not reasonable.

As I understand it, the caster doesn't lose any knowledge of spellcasting when he takes a level in Wild Mage. His spellcasting just gets wonkified. He still prepares his highest level spells and so forth, it just isn't clear how powerfully they'll manifest when he actually casts them. To let a character take a feat to eliminate this intrinsic trait of wild magic ignores the rationale behind the game mechanics as they stand, I think.

I figure that if you take 10 lvls in wizard and then decide to pursue a career soldiery and take levels in fighter, you might elect to continue practicing the spells you already know and have used for years, as a back-up to your still-feeble sword arm. That's practiced spellcaster.

To say that practiced spellcaster as a way to get around the caster level reduction from wild mage is like saying "I've practiced and grown so adroit at conventional spellcasting that I'm better at this new, counter-intuitive and unconventional way of spellcasting than those with more experience using it. I can predictably control the capriciously erratic."

That just don't make no sense. At least not to me.

 

[Thanee]

If I just posted that to be a jerk, I wouldn't care to explain it, or would I?

BTW, your example doesn't do what you say (so I didn't bother to reply to it, as it just shows a completely normal situation with PS and WM both active)... PS doesn't offset the -3 there... both are fully applied... 10th caster level (Wiz) +4 PS (4+ nonspellcaster levels) +1 (Wild Mage) = 15th caster level (13th-18th during spellcasting (with the -3+1d6)).



What people are hoping for is something like this...

14th caster level (Wiz) +1 (Wild Mage) = 15th caster level.

Now with Practiced Spellcaster the -3 isn't applied, since PS automatically nullifies it (since you still have all +4 from PS unused), so your caster level increases by +1 - +6 (16th-21st) not by -2 - +3 (13th-18th), as it should.

But this is simply not true, since PS does not work that way (as explained above).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sejs]

As said the last time it came up - no DM in their right mind would let that combo fly.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Settle down, kids... none of the personal attacks, hmm?

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Scion]

I dont know what I would do in my games, but at the 'very' least I would let it cancel out the penalty (ie, if he rolled a 1 or 2 it would be counted as a 3). Basically 1/3 of the time it would have an actual effect.

Although, the other options are interesting If it is considered a d6-3 modifier instead of a -3 modification and then d6 added on that is a bit different, but like I said, I'd have the above as a default unless choosing otherwise.

 

[Thanee]

I dont know what I would do in my games, but at the 'very' least I would let it cancel out the penalty (ie, if he rolled a 1 or 2 it would be counted as a 3).

If PS would be applied dynamically, then it would work that way, yeah.

But since PS is only figured into your permanent caster level during level up, that situation never happens.

That, of course, doesn't mean you can't let it work that way in your games as a house rule, but I would think twice about that...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sidenote: Hmm... actually... doesn't that also prevent Paladins (and such) from using Practiced Spellcaster on themselves and derive Mystic Theurges from any benefit at all from that feat?

Well, it depends on whether you consider the "gain a level in non-spellcasting class" to be an example, or the only time it changes.

Also, even if it is the only time the Practised Spellcaster bonus is recalculated, it doesn't prevent a Paladin-9 gaining full benefit from the feat when he takes it, or a Clr3/Sor4/MyTh getting his full +4 to his cleric caster level. But if he took it for his Sor caster level, he'd only get +3, and even if he took another level in Cleric, it wouldn't increase to +4.

On the other hand, if it only recalculates when taking a level in a non-spellcasting class, you could end up with another odd situation. Wiz1/Rog4 takes Practised Spellcaster, gaining +4 to his Wizard caster level. He gets Energy Drained for four levels, losing all his Rogue levels permanently. He now proceeds with his career, levelling as a pure wizard.

Since he's not taking levels in non-spellcasting classes, his PS bonus isn't recalculated, and remains at +4... so he's a Wiz-3 with a caster level of 7, for example.

-Hyp.

 

[Scion]

If PS would be applied dynamically, then it would work that way, yeah.

But since PS is only figured into your permanent caster level during level up, that situation never happens.

Even from the quotes you gave I dont see this as being a 'just at level time' sort of ability. I am not even sure if that sort of definition has any meaning.

It is just always there and applies whenever it can. If there was some sort of strange spell that turned one of a players levels into a commoner level for a certain duration then I would let practiced spellcaster help alleviate some of that problem.

Just like if someone suddenly gained some racial hd somehow, that would also work.

But then, I would even allow it to play off of the bonus hd granted by the bard song. But then I am a softy for very odd combinations that happen to have a good, but not overpowering, synergy That is just too nice of a roundabout use to 'not' allow it to work!