Wild Mage with Practiced Spellcaster?

[Thanee]

No, because that other situation is the standard situation the feat applies to and the wording seems clear enough on that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, because that other situation is the standard situation the feat applies to and the wording seems clear enough on that.

[blink]

... what?

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

[blink]

... what?

-Hyp.

I think thanee is, as we say, just making stuff up. There is nothing in core which specifies a 'sample time' for evaluating feats and the like. Given that, I think we must assume that the simulation is continuous.

Which means that at spellcasting, you do the following:

take a -3 to caster level

then

add 1d6 to caster level

then (and you do it last because it's the only one that is dependant upon anything)

Add 4 to your caster level up to a maximum of your hit dice.

So wild mages with the feat will usually get no benefit, and occasionally get a +1 to +3 caster level benefit.

For an average of +1 caster level. Eh. Whatever.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think thanee is, as we say, just making stuff up. There is nothing in core which specifies a 'sample time' for evaluating feats and the like. Given that, I think we must assume that the simulation is continuous.

Does that mean that an Orange Ioun Stone, for example, or the Good Domain power, is useless for someone who is gaining a partial benefit from Practised Spellcaster?

A Wiz6/Rog3 with PS gains a bonus sufficient to raise his caster level (6) up to his hit dice (9): +3.

If he throws up an Orange Ioun Stone, his caster level exclusive of PS is now 7, so PS provides a benefit sufficient to raise his caster level (7) up to his hit dice (9): +2.

Caster level before stone: 9. Caster level after stone: 9.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Caster level before stone: 9. Caster level after stone: 9.

-Hyp.

I guess we need some sort of order of precedence if we're going to use the continuous method, don't we?

Or just do it on a case-by-case basis.

I still maintain that in the case of the wild mage, having between +0 and +3 caster levels is the best solution.

But I guess that's just me making stuff up.

 

[Thanee]

I guess we need some sort of order of precedence if we're going to use the continuous method, don't we?

Or just do it on a case-by-case basis.

I still maintain that in the case of the wild mage, having between +0 and +3 caster levels is the best solution.

But I guess that's just me making stuff up.

Heh.

Why is that making stuff up, which I wrote?

The feat says "immediately" and "if you gain Hit Dice in levels of nonspellcasting classes, you might be able to apply the rest of the bonus", thus implying that you do not apply the rest of the bonus "continuous". Those two phrases describe when you gain benefit of the feat. The description is certainly not exhaustive (i.e. not covering level loss situations), but it's clear enough to me that they mean, that PS gives a permanent bonus/change to your caster level, not a bonus which is constantly lingering about waiting to come to use at any given moment. It doesn't say anything about that, and as you have noted, there is no order in which bonuses are applied, other than the order in which they were gained, so even then, PS would do nothing in combination with WM, since it must always be applied first, as WM is not active all the time for sure.

And it also seems to be the most reasonable way to let this work, otherwise it would let you ignore caster level penalties (i.e. from Energy Drain attacks), which does not seem very related to the feat and certainly does not seem to be the intent, much less that Wild Magic abuse, which is very obviously not the intent of Wild Magic.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

And it also seems to be the most reasonable way to let this work, otherwise it would let you ignore caster level penalties (i.e. from Energy Drain attacks)...

Actually, looking at the wording, Practised Spellcaster would absolutely work in conjunction with Inspire Greatness.

The feat says nothing about levelling up. It says "If you later gain noncaster-level hit dice, you may be able to apply the rest of the bonus."

Inspire Greatness states "A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice".

Gaining hit dice fits the requirement to be able to apply the rest of the bonus.

I'd also say that "noncaster-level" applies to the caster level that the feat applies to... so if a Cleric with PS takes a level of Wizard, then even though Wizard is a casting class, it doesn't grant a caster level as far as PS is concerned (since the PS only applies to Cleric caster level in this case), and thus more of the bonus would be able to be applied.

Likewise, while Pal-6 is a caster level hit die, Pal-7 is a noncaster-level hit die, since that hit die provides no increase in caster level.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

I wouldn't count Inspire Greatness as gaining Hit Dice in a nonspellcasting class, really.

What I'm basically trying to say is, that I think what they are trying to say/model is, that Practiced Spellcaster just grants something similar to the PrC's "+1 level of existing class" (just limited to caster level) to any nonspellcasting class you take on a one-by-one basis and up to a +4.

Like "this level of rogue improves your caster level by +1 thanks to Practiced Spellcaster".

That seems to be the closest thing to what they describe there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Likewise, while Pal-6 is a caster level hit die, Pal-7 is a noncaster-level hit die, since that hit die provides no increase in caster level.

But it's nonetheless a Hit Die in a spellcasting class (Paladin).

Tho, I'd let that fly, anyways... it seems fair enough to allow it, but it might be a house rule to do so.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

I wouldn't count Inspire Greatness as gaining Hit Dice in a nonspellcasting class, really.

Which is irrelevant.

They're not hit dice in a non-spellcasting class.

But they are noncaster-level hit dice. Are they hit dice that provide a caster level? No? Then they are noncaster-level hit dice.

But it's nonetheless a Hit Die in a spellcasting class (Paladin).

Which is irrelevant.

It's a hit die in a spellcasting class.

But it's a noncaster-level hit die. Is it a hit die that provides a caster level? No? Then it's a noncaster-level hit die.

-Hyp.