will 4.0 succeed?

[Storminator]

Restoration works wonders. If they have no restoration available on hand, they probably will later, and in the mean time it's fun watching the player squirm.

Restoration works wonders, but requiring it sucks rocks. Did Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser run around with wands of Restoration?

I think that there are cases where adventures give the PCs too much treasure and the DM needs a rules justifiable way of removing some of it from them. YMMV, but I don't agree that the game lacks balance if the characters aren't slogging around a U-Haul full of magical gizmos.

I once played an epic level monk. In order to touch challenges that made sense for the epic level cleric and the epic level wizard, I needed a U-Haul worth of highly specialized magical gizmos.

So the day the Disjunction hit (let's not cover the 45 minutes to recalculate everything for the party...), which also happened to be the moment I put together the worst string of d20 rolls in my life, I lost over 1.4 million gp worth of items. Attack? Down 10. Damage? Down 4d6 + 8 per attack. AC? Down 8. Saves, down 8 each. Flying, teleporting, hasting abilities? Gone. Can't get to foes, can't hit them when I get there, couldn't hurt 'em if I did, and can't survive a counterattack. It was like I was 10 levels behind, and I was already a meleer in a world of spellcasters.

So later, when we had to go kill a Lolth avatar, we had a 24th level sorcerer on "I ready an action to counterspell Disjunction" duty. Can you imagine how much fun that player had? What about the Highmage that also readied a counterspell in case the sorcerer went down? He at least got to cast Quickened Magic Missile every turn.

There are all kinds of spells the BBEG can use to make these spells and others ineffective. If the player complains, I just say, "Hey, this isn't Quake and you can't turn god mode on. The guy who set this up for you assumed that someone would try that and put some permanent spells in place to prevent that from happening.

What about BBEGs with no spellcasting? Oh right, those don't exist.

Never had this happen. If I did have it happen, I would simply tell the player that I wasn't going to allow it.

If a player is no longer having fun in your game and wants to try something else, you'd tell him you wouldn't allow it?!

Yeah, that kind of sucks. There is a 3.5 hack for E-Tools that allows me to more quickly generate advanced monsters.

Does that sound like "no problem!" to you? Honestly?

Same planet, different worlds, man. :shrug:

PS

 

[Dice4Hire]

Having players Wind Walk through an entire dungeon you spent hours creating.
Having players Scry-Buff-Teleport into the BBEG's headquarters and cutting him down in his sleep, thus prematurely ending a campaign you spent months building up.

With Rule 0, and some common sense, you and the players can agree not to do such cheap tricks.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Unfortunately, every way around everything involves using a spell. At high levels, there is magic, and nothing else worth mentioning.

This is probably my main complaint with 3.5. Figheters and otehr non-spellcasters spend too much time saying "Motehr, may I" to spellcasters.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Unfortunately, every way around everything involves using a spell. At high levels, there is magic, and nothing else worth mentioning.

But you see you don't have to brew the potion yourself. You can buy them from a local temple, find them in the dungeon ... ummm treasure ....

 

[Will]

My sneeking suspician is that those excited about 4E sight unseen are more excited about the POTENTIAL of what 4E could do rather then what 4E ACTUALLY is.

...

I have a feeling that the rules lawyering will continue as will munchkining

THWEET! Flag down, hyperbole!

Seriously, has anyone really claimed that rules lawyering and munchkins will be a thing of the past with 4e?

There are plenty of decent reasons to tilt at 4e without making stuff up, come on.

 

[Jack99]

But you see you don't have to brew the potion yourself. You can buy them from a local temple, find them in the dungeon ... ummm treasure ....

Yes, because using potions makes up for having no spell-casting......

Either way. You don't find it sad/broken/wrong that some classes have to have hoards of magic items just to come near being as useful as the spell-casters?

 

[Darrin Drader]

If a player is no longer having fun in your game and wants to try something else, you'd tell him you wouldn't allow it?!

Alright, let me rephrase that. If the player comes to me and says that he isn't really enjoying his character and wants to arrange an exit stage left to make room for something completely different, I'd probably let him have his way. If they're just whining because the character just needs a restoration spell, then not so much.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Having a game where the PCs can die is not a broken system. If it were broken, the ideal game is one where you would sit down to play, congratulate everyone for showing up, tell them that they win and are the most awesome players in the history of the game ever, and then sit for hours talking about how brilliant your character is. The DM exists to steer the game in the direction he intended, and if the die rolls go the other way, it is up to the DM to be the storyteller and figure out a way to fix things on the fly. If there were no need for a DM, that position would never have been written in as a fundamental aspect of the game.

This.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Yes, because using potions makes up for having no spell-casting......

Either way. You don't find it sad/broken/wrong that some classes have to have hoards of magic items just to come near being as useful as the spell-casters?

The game I finished up in Feb had no cleric. We got along just fine mostly thanks to a rogue tweeked out with Use Magic Device.

 

[Storminator]

But you see you don't have to brew the potion yourself. You can buy them from a local temple, find them in the dungeon ... ummm treasure ....

The game I finished up in Feb had no cleric. We got along just fine mostly thanks to a rogue tweeked out with Use Magic Device.

But in these cases you STILL need the cleric magic. Just because you have the cleric magic without the cleric doesn't mean you can play without the cleric magic!

If it were just one thing, perhaps it would be ok, but it's not.

Out of hit points? Spell.

Grappling monster? Spell.

Level drain? Spell.

Poison? Spell.

Petrified? Spell.

Flying, invisible, fireballing wizard? Spell.

DR? Spell.

SR? Spell that bypasses the thing that's supposed to defeat spells!

Mystery? Spell.

Something lost? Spell.

It's pervasive.

PS