Will we get 5 tiers of game in 5.5 insted of current 4?


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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
But WotC has never known what to do with them, and they're still there.

It seems to me that TSR didn't really have an idea what to do with them either. And it isn't like D&D is the only game that runs into trouble at the upper end of its power curve.

I submit that the players don't really have a solid, consistent idea of what they want out of play at that level either.
 


Condense abilities from 20 levels to 13(suggested Tier4), where most games end(or long before)
last 6 levels just expand on already gained abilities.
if you took everything but prof and HD/HP that a 20th level fighter gets and give it to the 10th level fighter (so 4 attacks a bunch of subclass features and some extra indomitable and even an extra feat) the fighter still wont have the options and versatiltity or even power of a 9th level wizard cause nothing there equals a 5th level spell
 

we would be so lucky, that will never happen as fighters must be weak or wizards will have to grow up and admit they are not living gods or unliving if they ascent to lichdom.
I fail to see the logic in these assertions. To each his own I guess. I am on the camp that wizards and other casters are on the relatively weak side now. I would rather see them with lower HP but more spell slots. And spells should do way more damage.
 

Micah Sweet

Legend
It seems to me that TSR didn't really have an idea what to do with them either. And it isn't like D&D is the only game that runs into trouble at the upper end of its power curve.

I submit that the players don't really have a solid, consistent idea of what they want out of play at that level either.
I disagree. TSR reserved high levels for kingdom-building and keeping high-level they felt should be in the game but largely out of reach for PCs. After 9th level or so, you're supposed to re-focus your efforts on the big picture, and leave the life of an adventurer behind for the most part. That idea wasn't popular so it was gradually dropped, leaving us with the high level mess we have now.
 

if you took everything but prof and HD/HP that a 20th level fighter gets and give it to the 10th level fighter (so 4 attacks a bunch of subclass features and some extra indomitable and even an extra feat) the fighter still wont have the options and versatiltity or even power of a 9th level wizard cause nothing there equals a 5th level spell
And this is a good thing.
 

Horwath

Hero
Given that they have almost no adventure support above that point, it would seem they do recognize it.

That said, I'm happy for the higher levels to still be there.
don't get me wrong, I like it too.
There should always be an option to continue to the next campaign with same charcters.
Just, the goodies need to come sooner :D
 



Micah Sweet

Legend
They could take a page from the OSR. In ACKS, leveling ends more or less at 11 with the PCs engaging in kingdom-building at that point. High level spells are now rituals you have to find or create.
 



TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Ideally, you take the interesting capstones (like Wizard signature spells) and move them to the "real-game" endpoint of about 12th level. Than you give flashy, meaningless capstones (like the Paladin super saiyan transformation) at 20 so those levels have some sort of goal.

But really, 5e is kind of set up this way already. Levels 11+ are pretty sparse in terms of novel features for classes. Spell progression mostly stops, you only get one higher level slot every 2 levels.

The most compelling change would be moving some of the interesting subclass features in the teen levels into the core levels, and then making teen level subclass features into incremental improvements (more uses, higher numbers, not new features).
 


I fail to see the logic in these assertions. To each his own I guess. I am on the camp that wizards and other casters are on the relatively weak side now. I would rather see them with lower HP but more spell slots. And spells should do way more damage.
i am taken aback... I have seen people argue they are not OVER powered (and I disagree) but I have never seen someone say they are too weak?
 




Micah Sweet

Legend
why? Why is it good that no martial character without magic even at 20th level can have the versatility and power of a 5th level spell useable by 1/3 the game at level 9?
If the game shifted away from the dungeon at that point, emphasizing non-personal combat stuff, and martial classes had more features throughout to choose from, this would not be as much of an issue. Level Up covers a lot of this.
 

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