D&D General Wizard vs Fighter - the math

So the balance point, where wizards and fighters are roughly equal in combat, is 6-8 encounters per day (per the OP)? Since the combat pillar is supposed to be where the fighter shines (and he is giving up a lot of design space on the social and exploration pillars), isn’t this a problem?
No. It's not 6-8 encounters a day, it's 18 rounds which is 2-3 Deadly/Deadly+. I swear the worst sentence written in the DMG is the one where they take the daily XP budget and give the EXAMPLE of 6-8 Medium to hard fights. If they would have just said 6-8 Medium to Hard or 3 Deadly, 10 years of misunderstanding could have been avoided.
 

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My current group is starting a new group, they're going to have a war cleric as their only caster.
Try tracking how many encounters and short rests you have be long rests.
You can also ask your DM to hold onto his encounter building notes.
It might be interesting.
 

If they would have just said 6-8 Medium to Hard or 3 Deadly, 10 years of misunderstanding could have been avoided.
I've certainly heard that before, and early on.
3-4 deadly with a short rest after each encounter might be comparable in encounter difficulty calculations, but it won't just be as many rounds as 6-8 encounter with the same pressures on resource management. They're going to be higher stakes, putting more emphasis on the early rounds, because if you don't eliminate enemies fast you'll be overwhelmed.

....but, 6-8 is already a range, and substituting 1 deadly for 2 of those 6-8 expands it all the way out to 3-8 encounters, and maybe some more issues with when to short rest....
 

Try tracking how many encounters and short rests you have be long rests.
You can also ask your DM to hold onto his encounter building notes.
It might be interesting.
When I DM its typically 4-8 encounters betweenlong rests, 1 shott rest is most common. Occasionally it's more or less. I've also played plenty of other games over the years with different groups. I have never seen an issue.

The people who say that their players have given up on fighters are obviously outliers since fighter is the most popular class.
 


I know you've never seen an issue, and I don't expect to ever hear otherwise.

I meant it might be interesting for you to track that data systematically, purely for your own edification.
I gave you what I generally do. When playing with other DMs it's varied pretty significantly.
 

I've certainly heard that before, and early on.
3-4 deadly with a short rest after each encounter might be comparable in encounter difficulty calculations, but it won't just be as many rounds as 6-8 encounter with the same pressures on resource management. They're going to be higher stakes, putting more emphasis on the early rounds, because if you don't eliminate enemies fast you'll be overwhelmed.

....but, 6-8 is already a range, and substituting 1 deadly for 2 of those 6-8 expands it all the way out to 3-8 encounters, and maybe some more issues with when to short rest....
I've found pretty consistently that a Deadly encounter runs about 5-6 rounds, a Hard 3 rounds, and a Medium 2 rounds. Some of that depends on the nova level and the specific monster and PC class combination, and dice luck, but the overall average is spot on. It's certainly close enough to the sweet spot described in the OP. In terms of resource management, Deadlies are also more likely to cause casters to lose concentration on spells, forcing them to use additional slots that they might not use in a medium or hard encounter.

Magic Items, being a pure boon outside of the expected math, will reduce the rounds (as they ultimately make the party work at an effective level higher than their actual level). However, martials especially benefit from having magic items, since many are active every single round of combat (offensively and defensively) and the ones that aren't provide additional options for the martial, whereas for casters they only provide additional options (unless they have a magic item that gives them access to spells above their current level).

Not following Random treasure generation rules can amplify the issue with magic items, since you are both more likely to give casters more than they would get from the random tables (which lean heavily towards martial support by percentage) and can provide precise boons to enhance casters far more often than the random tables assume (looking at all those Rods of the Pact Keeper out there, even though there is only a 2% chance to get one on table F).

And 3 deadlies isn't just comparable in encounter difficulty calculations, it's almost exact.

1st Level - Deadly encounter - 100xp, Adventuring Day 300 XP (3 Deadlies)
5th Level - Deadly encounter - 1,100xp, Adventuring Day 3,500XP (3 Deadlies goes 200xp under)
11th Level - Deadly encounter - 3,600xp, Adventuring Day 10,500 (3 Deadlies goes 300xp over)

Short rest between each encounter and you end up with 2 short rests per day.
 

I've found pretty consistently that a Deadly encounter runs about 5-6 rounds, a Hard 3 rounds, and a Medium 2 rounds.
That is ... exact. 🤔
And 3 deadlies isn't just comparable in encounter difficulty calculations, it's almost exact.

1st Level - Deadly encounter - 100xp, Adventuring Day 300 XP (3 Deadlies)
5th Level - Deadly encounter - 1,100xp, Adventuring Day 3,500XP (3 Deadlies goes 200xp under)
11th Level - Deadly encounter - 3,600xp, Adventuring Day 10,500 (3 Deadlies goes 300xp over)
I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't, just that it was only the CR calculations that were comparable.
CR being notoriously unreliable.
 

That is ... exact. 🤔

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't, just that it was only the CR calculations that were comparable.
CR being notoriously unreliable.
Yep, encounter building is all about expected DPR of the party vs the HP total of the enemies. Use higher CR monsters and/or more monsters, and it takes longer to chew through the HP total with the same DPR of the party.

CR is completely reliable when it's used as intended (ie converting it to XP per the encounter building guidelines, and only using the CR number to evaluate whether a monster may have capabilities that an average party of that level may not be able to handle).
 

My current group is starting a new group, they're going to have a war cleric as their only caster. If you never implement logical consequences and only have 15 minute work days then of course you get different results.
Does anything exist between the two extremes or are we destined to exclude every middle?
 

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