Dragonlance Would you allow Kender outside of Dragonlance?

[Scrivener of Doom]

For me, the desire to play a kender is one of those markers that suggests a player is not going to be compatible with the way we play but...

Seriously, though, if I had to wrangle kender for some God-forsaken reason, I'd do it in +13A. Kender would get taunt as a once-per-battle Racial Ability. "Handling" would be a racial feat. It would be a Faustian Bargain ability. You gimmick up an explanation of where and when you got whatever pouch-fitting item on the fly. In exchange the DM banks a complication to be named later, just like invoking a "5" on the Icon Dice. Yes, you happen to have the vault key Captain Birdwhistle was carrying. Just don't come crying to me because your scatterbrained klepto with selective memory disorder can't, for the life of him, remember ever coming to this town - let alone tripping the Lord Mayor over his chamber-pot andthatbountyposterdoesn'tevenlooklikemethisisjustdiscriminationagainst-URK!

Marty Lund

That's a great response.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In 99% of cases, my answer would be 'No.' On rare occasions, if I know the player well and consider them trustworthy, I would have make sure it's cleared with the other players. All of them, not just a majority. Then I would make it clear in no uncertain terms that this character is likely going to die early into the campaign, probably at the hands of the other PCs.

But seriously, Kender are just a terrible idea as a race. A group of adult adventurers wouldn't want to be responsible for the life of an ADHD child with kleptomania traveling with them, and likely wouldn't trust such to keep their own lives secure in a battle. And it's not just the fact that the race is used as "an excuse" for annoying behavior. It's that this annoying behavior is completely justified IC, and to not partake in it would be poor roleplaying. Factor in their fearlessness, i.e. suicidal tendencies, and you've got a TPK in a four foot container.

All right, I'll stop ranting now.

there was a nsfw picture of the original write up someone wrote over e planning why they were bad and unplayable

I can't stand how it forces other Pcs and NBC to except and love them...they would be race profiled not let in shops or bazaars. ..and for good reason. As a race they can't ever learn what about there customs might set someone off...


I have seen great RPers turned into game destroyers by this race... I only saw it done well once, and even that was only when the we group got veto authority over the PC in question...on any action.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Absolutely! As I've mentioned before, the first time I read about Kender (in Dragon, before Dragonlance came out) I swore a vow that any character of mine who ever came across any Kender would kill it/them on sight. Fortunately, everyone else I've ever played with wanted nothing to do with them either. But that vow still holds.

Yes and if played by the right up by raw YOU would be wrong...BECUSE EVERONE LOVES THEM.... That is themain problem thesame race treated like outcast and mistrust AND the PC could learn in game and grow wouldn't be half as bad... Although that would still be a hard race...

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I've found they're a lot of fun, both as a DM and as a player. Fluffwise, I pretty much insist that they originate on Krynn. But it's easy enough to imagine a kender borrowing a plane-traveling device and playing with is, such that either the kender or his whole village end up in another world.

 

[wedgeski]

I'd allow Kender. I wouldn't allow disruptive play. The player would have to figure out how to do one without the other.

Nailed it.

I've had nothing but good experiences DM'ing kender, but have heard enough over the years to understand that my experience is not universal. Or even common.

 

[Jester David]

I like kender, but they're hard to pull off. Kender are a race that should be saved for advanced roleplayers.

Outside of Dragonlance, there's halflings, who fill much of the same role. Kender are redundant. It's possible to slip in a little kender to established halflings in a setting without too much trouble.

 

[asorel]

there was a nsfw picture of the original write up someone wrote over e planning why they were bad and unplayable

I can't stand how it forces other Pcs and NBC to except and love them...they would be race profiled not let in shops or bazaars. ..and for good reason. As a race they can't ever learn what about there customs might set someone off...


I have seen great RPers turned into game destroyers by this race... I only saw it done well once, and even that was only when the we group got veto authority over the PC in question...on any action.

You mean *inappropriate link removed*

 

[Zaukrie]

If it is fun, yes. If the person playing one plays so it is not fun, no.

 

[chibi graz'zt]

Answer is simple enough: No. Keep iconic setting races in their worlds. The Realms has halflings, Krynn has Kender.

 

[Midknightsun]

We had a player who entertained the idea of playing a Kender. Several of us, in no uncertain terms, stated that "handling" party items would end poorly for the character. . . . .very poorly. He decided against it much to the relief of the rest of the group. I also don't get how a society of fearless kleptos could possibly not end up on bounty boards. Fine in novels when you have control. Not so fine in games where I have yet to see one played that was NOT extremely disruptive.

Sadly though, while I really like the Dragonlance Setting and would love to run it, my group would consist of, at minimum, a Kender, a Gully Dwarf, and a Tinker Gnome. The end result would be me throwing myself off the roof of my house yelling "D you Weis and Hickman! Dyou to H!!!!"

 

[Quartz]

Kender are NPC-only, even in Dragonlance.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

In a Planescape/Spelljammer campaign, sure.

 

[DMZ2112]

I don't understand why folks happily accept that the personality traits listed for dwarves and elves are guidelines but assume every kender must be Tasslehoff Burrfoot.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

My hat of kender know no limit.

 

[Serendipity]

No, but if I were to do so they'd have to be an import from Krynn. Given that I do use the D&D multiverse (more or less) as the backdrop to my homebrew, that wouldn't be too much of a problem.
But that's if. And the answer's no. If one of my better RP oriented players had a concept that didn't make me cringe I suppose it'd be possible...but I don't see that happening. It's totally a knee jerk reaction but I'm well adjusted about it.

(And none of this is going to prevent me from playing in someone's DL campaign but I'll be playing a minotaur so....hopefully it won't come up.)

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'd allow Kender. I wouldn't allow disruptive play. The player would have to figure out how to do one without the other.

Yeah, this has been driven home in my recent Dragonlance game.

I'm playing a gnomish wild sorcerer. And gnomes on Krynn are the "mad scientist blow everything up" kind of comic relief. Which is different than the kender's style of comic relief, but no less insufferable when you are actively hurting the party and screwing everything up with your love of explosions.

But my gnome is NOT the biggest annoyance in the party. Sure, he's a wild sorcerer - and sure, he might blow up the party someday in a fireball (though so far, he hasn't been that destructive). And he's not exactly a reliable party member. But he works fine with everyone else, doesn't really get in the way, and is surprisingly useful (even to me!) most of the time.

That's largely because of my choices as a player. I want to play a gnome wild sorcerer, but I don't want to make the game less fun for my fellow players because of it.

At the same time, our game has an elf ranger in it. DL elves are, apparently, one pointy-eared goose-step away from proclaiming themselves the Master Race, and this elf is constantly, begrudgingly, accompanying the rest of the party. She's always throwing a fit about something or other. She refused to put on a disguise for an infiltration mission (because elf?), she has healing spells but you wouldn't know it for how often she helps people who are injured, she has aimed her weapons at other party members multiple times (one time she was mind-controlled....but only one time...), she has no qualms about triggering area effects when allies are in the way, she disregards the other party members when choosing targets (she's gone for targets that were harmlessly asleep or incapacitated over targets that are actively harassing us).

This player seems to be more....struggling....with playing his character in a way true to her personality, but also in a way that doesn't disrupt play. We've managed pretty fine so far, but the character's always a few inches from just being written out of the story because she refuses to be part of the team.

It's not the kender that is the problem. Though they might be attractive to players who are more likely to be problems, the problem lies in the disruptive player (or the player who can't make the race constructive), not necessarily in the race itself. I could be a CRAZY disruptive gnome wild sorcerer. That elf ranger could NOT be so disruptive. That boils down to player choices in character actions.

 

[mlund]

At the same time, our game has an elf ranger in it. DL elves are, apparently, one pointy-eared goose-step away from proclaiming themselves the Master Race, and this elf is constantly, begrudgingly, accompanying the rest of the party.

To be fair, that's an accurate characterization. Maybe even a little charitable. Between Dragonlance and Tolkien I came away from childhood with a very sour opinion of fantasy elves in general. In retrospect, it isn't called the "Age of Despair" for nothing. I probably wouldn't have enjoyed a human race modeled entirely off of general populace designs for Blade Runner either.

Marty Lund

 

[neobolts]

It's not the kender that is the problem. Though they might be attractive to players who are more likely to be problems, the problem lies in the disruptive player (or the player who can't make the race constructive), not necessarily in the race itself. I could be a CRAZY disruptive gnome wild sorcerer. That elf ranger could NOT be so disruptive. That boils down to player choices in character actions.

"Guns don't kill people! I DO!" - Weird Al's UHF

 

[I'm A Banana]

To be fair, that's an accurate characterization. Maybe even a little charitable. Between Dragonlance and Tolkien I came away from childhood with a very sour opinion of fantasy elves in general. In retrospect, it isn't called the "Age of Despair" for nothing. I probably wouldn't have enjoyed a human race modeled entirely off of general populace designs for Blade Runner either.

Marty Lund

Dragonlance in general, IMXP, has kind of a problem with poorly characterized races, a legacy of the setting being invented for a novel series. Like, an elitist elf is a good character, but this is DL, so ALL ELVES ARE EXTREMELY RACIST. A wacky gnome is fun, but this is Dragonlance so ALL GNOMES ARE INSANE. A chlidlike halfling is nice, but this is Dragonlance so ALL KENDER ARE ADHD AND ANNOYING. A greedy dwarf is cool, so ALL DWARVES ARE OBSESSED WITH WEALTH. Every race is like the worst stereotype, Flanderized to the nth degree.

Those are all good characters to highlight a stable fairly-human baseline in a narrative sense.

They are not necessarily great for a world that needs more than a narrative arc, or in the hands of players who need to make these characters work together.

I could Get Into It about DL's races, but that way lies madness.

...and that's ALSO a player choice. I'm not going to pooh-pooh the rest of my group's fun just because I could soapbox about the problems with DL for a week. Ain't worth it.

 

[Sunseeker]

No. Halflings are annoying enough, Kender take all the aspects I hate about halflings and turn them to 11. Kender are seriously one of the reasons I simply can't read the Dragonlance books.