+X Items - Why so bad for the game?

[Iota]

A while ago I posted a thread about D&D "Sacred Cows" and I've also been watching threads about what people would like to see in D&D 5.0. One thing that people seem to dislike is the +X Items (e.g. Longsword +3), but I don't quite understand why.

Thinking back, weapons that improve the wielder's skill (bows that improve your aim or swords that strike true) show up in fantasy literature and movies quite a bit. I get the impression that most people are against +X Items because they make the game more about how skilled your gear makes you rather than how skilled you really are; i.e. it's more about the gear than the character who wields it.

On the other hand, I could see people being against +X Items simply because there's so many of them and they get in the way of cooler weapons (e.g. Mighty Battle Axe of Crackling Lightning Strikes) when rolling for random treasure drops.

Also if you build a warrior around using Rapiers, but only ever see Greatsword +3 or Mace +4 drops, you might be tempted to give up your favorite weapon in favor of combat performance based only on the skill & damage potential you're giving up by being true to your character concept.

So, if you're of a mind that +X Items are bad for the game, please fill me in on your reasons for it.

 

[Herzog]

I don't think +X Items are bad for the game. I DO think the fact the game balance assumes the use of +X Items is bad for the game.

A fighter shouldn't have to rely on having a +X weapon to be able to hit the level-appropriate opponent, nor should he have to rely on having a +X armor to keep most of the attacks of the level-appropriate opponent from hitting him.

 

[Spatula]

I don't think +X items are bad for the game. I just think that they're boring. I also believe that they contribute to the commoditization (if that's a word) of magic items.

The magic weapons from fantasy or myths that I am familiary with (granted, hardly an exhaustive list) weren't known for increasing the weilder's combat prowess by Y (which is more than X but less than Z). They were known for their history, their special properties/abilities, and/or the materials used to make them.

 

[Mark CMG]

A while ago I posted a thread about D&D "Sacred Cows" (. . .)

That sounds interesting, too. Do you have a link?

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

So, if you're of a mind that +X Items are bad for the game, please fill me in on your reasons for it.

You basically covered it.

+X items are annoying because they create a need that many DMs aren't willing to fulfill. (You have to either provide specific +X items to your players, or have the experience necessary to compensate in other ways.) A lot of DMs try to run campaigns with rare items or no items, but many of them don't understand the consequences or how to do it right.

I don't think +X Items are bad for the game. I DO think the fact the game balance assumes the use of +X Items is bad for the game.

IMO, you can't have one without the other.

Or rather, +X items are always either necessary to make the game math work, or they're simply overpowered. I know even game devs sometimes claim that "oh, you don't need +X items in my D&D variant," but I think they're kidding themselves. Whether we're talking about OD&D, 3.PF or 4e, +X items are just too useful to not be either necessary or overpowered.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Most of the FRPGs I've played in have had magic items analogous to +X items...however, they also usually do more than just add +X.

I think there would be fewer complaints about them if:

1. +X stopped at, say, +3, and everything over +1 had to have some kind of other magical benefit- making them seem more "magical"- even if or maybe ESPECIALLY if the other benefit had little or no combat application. What if that +2 longsword your Fighter just found also granted him the ability to improve the skill of anyone making a Craft check in a 20' radius by the sword's bonus? Or your +3 armor made you smell good to those around you, regardless of your actual state of cleanliness and cultural or racial preferences?
2. Some of the +X bonuses were variable, say...waxing and waning with the phases of the moon, or the season.
3. +X only worked for limited numbers of strikes in a combat, or against only particular kinds of foe or armors
4. All magic weapons and armor had advantages AND disadvantages

In other words, what if +X wasn't so...vanilla?

It seems to me as if the +X just bugs people on a psychological level; that their inherent sameness sucks the "magic" out of the magic weapons and armor.

 

[Iota]

That sounds interesting, too. Do you have a link?

Here ya go

 

[Mark CMG]

Here ya go

Thanks.

 

[billd91]

I don't think +X Items are bad for the game. I DO think the fact the game balance assumes the use of +X Items is bad for the game.

A fighter shouldn't have to rely on having a +X weapon to be able to hit the level-appropriate opponent, nor should he have to rely on having a +X armor to keep most of the attacks of the level-appropriate opponent from hitting him.

I agree for the most part. I think it's OK to expect a magical bonus at some point (like for easily overcoming DR x/magic) but I don't think they should be built in as expectations beyond that point. That said, I don't think it's true you can't have one without the other with respect to design specifications. Whether you can with respect to player expectations, particularly among the optimizer crowd, may be another question. They'll spam the boards that you need them whether they're built into the game's expectations or not...

 

[Noctos]

A fighter shouldn't have to rely on having a +X weapon to be able to hit the level-appropriate opponent, nor should he have to rely on having a +X armor to keep most of the attacks of the level-appropriate opponent from hitting him.

i'm just going to reply quickly to this cause i dont have the time to say it all right not but. it's not that he needs it but it's the magic gear that allows a warrior to get on equal grounds with a mage or priest.

and secondly a dont care your no special sword should not do any hard to my lava monster or anceint dragon, 100's of year old undead creature. makes since to me that i'm old and powerful you regular stuff fails.