D&D 5E Zard's S Tier Archetypes

[Gammadoodler]

All this discussion regarding the organization of a tier listing when we should be discussing
...how Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time! One of the best videos of all time!

 

[ccs]

The skipping E part is the thing.

Like I said. No mystery. FAILURE begins with an F. Not an E.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Like I said. No mystery. FAILURE begins with an F. Not an E.

But in that case, what do A, B, C and D stand for?

I.e. why suddenly switch from alphabetical order to an abbreviation?

 

[Gammadoodler]

But in that case, what do A, B, C and D stand for?

I.e. why suddenly switch from alphabetical order to an abbreviation?

Amazing
Basically amazing
Circumstantially amazing
Diminishingly amazing
?

 

[Aldarc]

I don't want to go down this rabbit hole too much because it really, REALLY, isn't that important, but I've seen the letter-tier system used to rank dungeon difficulty or the viability of specs in WoW, the best aesthetic skins in Fortnite, and the various characters for each role in LoL, which are the 3 most popular games streamed on Twitch. The concept isn't so ubiquitous that it's impossible to avoid, but I was first exposed to it back in the 90s, and I've only seen it in more and more places over the past decade or so.

Really, it isn't so much a system as much as "getting an S rank" or "being S tier" is simply a commonly utilized piece of video game jargon.

Yeah, I have seen this grading system applied to MMORPGs (WoW), MOBAs (LoL, HotS, Dota 2), Overwatch, and Smash Bros.. I've even seen it applied to ranking a band's albums, NBA teams and players, superheroes, and breakfast cereals. A cursory search for 'tier list' on YouTube even shows Ben Shapiro applying it to ranking US Presidents.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Almost nobody knows what "S Tier" means.

It means they get their backstory detailed before the main character kills them in a battle that lasts 1.5-2 episodes × the season.

 

[Aldarc]

Going back to the purpose of the OP rather than debating the prevalence of the ranking system...

Bard: Inspiration, Lore

Do you mean the College of Eloquence bard?

Cleric: death, light, life, twilight

Interestingly, Dungeon Dudes puts the Death Cleric at C tier and the Grave Cleric at A Tier. They and their community also list Forge Cleric as S Tier, Light Cleric as A Tier, and Tempest Cleric at S Tier. So that's a quite bit of variance between your S Tier ratings and theirs. (It was before Tasha's so no subclasses from that book.)

Rogue: Arcane Trickster (high level)

Just so we are clear, and I am using the Rogue citation as an example: What do you mean by "high level"? As in "high level" S Tier? Borderline "high level" A Tier - low S Tier? Or it only becomes S Tier at "high level"? This is unclear.

Wizard: Abjurer, Bladedancer, Diviner, Evocation, War

I'm not sure if it's possible for so many subclasses to be S Tier. It kinda dilutes the purpose of intra-class subclass tier rankings when almost half are ranked S Tier.

 

[Zardnaar]

Going back to the purpose of the OP rather than debating the prevalence of the ranking system...


Do you mean the College of Eloquence bard?


Interestingly, Dungeon Dudes puts the Death Cleric at C tier and the Grave Cleric at A Tier. They and their community also list Forge Cleric as S Tier, Light Cleric as A Tier, and Tempest Cleric at S Tier. So that's a quite bit of variance between your S Tier ratings and theirs. (It was before Tasha's so no subclasses from that book.)


Just so we are clear, and I am using the Rogue citation as an example: What do you mean by "high level"? As in "high level" S Tier? Borderline "high level" A Tier - low S Tier? Or it only becomes S Tier at "high level"? This is unclear.


I'm not sure if it's possible for so many subclasses to be S Tier. It kinda dilutes the purpose of intra-class subclass tier rankings when almost half are ranked S Tier.

College of eloquence yes.

Death cleric got a lot better with xanathars and toll the dead. They can also smite with indict or even vampiric touch and regain the extra hit points.

Dungeon Dudes over rated heavy armor and martial weapons on clerics IMHO.

They also miss interactions sometimes with various abilities. They rate there's into the mid tiers I mostly focus on lvl 1-10.

For example they talk about casting shadow blade and haste as an arcane trickster. That not going to happen a lot in most games and when it does that's S tier hence why I said the AT is really good later on.

Alit of people also over rate the forge cleric imho. It's extra damage is fire, it's MAD if you use heavy armor and it's channel divinity isn't that great imho.

It's good though personally I would put it in A tier though.

Poison and fire damage very common resistance/immunity.

I'll have to look at grave, it's non PHB I may have overlooked. I think I prefer order cleric but once again I'll have to reread.

 

[Scribe]

Wait, Conquest isn't S?

Your Honor, I object!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Death cleric got a lot better with xanathars and toll the dead. They can also smite with indict or even vampiric touch and regain the extra hit points.

I don't think anyone is evaluating Death Cleric without Toll the Dead. It's enough to make it average rather than poor, and even an average cleric is a strong class. But, post-Tasha's the "S" cleric is easy to spot - it's Twilight.

For example they talk about casting shadow blade and haste as an arcane trickster. That not going to happen a lot in most games and when it does that's S tier hence why I said the AT is really good later on.

You only need to be level 7 for Shadow Blade, which is hardly what I would consider high level. Besides, I think ATs are mostly highly regarded for Find Familiar, which they get at level 3. But, if them not to be "S" at low level, that means something else must be better. Which rogue subclass do you consider a better low level option?

Alit of people also over rate the forge cleric imho. It's extra damage is fire, it's MAD if you use heavy armor and it's channel divinity isn't that great imho.

I think Forge gets rated up because of it's ability to supply magic weapons at low level, which can make the difference between an easy win and "run away! Run away!". But you millage may vary if your game is magic weapon rich anyway.

I'll have to look at grave, it's non PHB I may have overlooked. I think I prefer order cleric but once again I'll have to reread.

I'll save you the bother. It's better than Death, but worse than Twilight.