Zion Mainframe...

[RolandOfGilead]

Agent smith in the first matrix is desperate to get the encryption codes so that he can access the zion mainframe to escape the matrix.. so he's trying to get out! He even suggests that he is attempting to get the zion codes so he can destroy zion (once and for all) and therefore he would no longer need to be in the matrix. Whats going on here? Is smith not really aware of the
true plot/prophecy? or is he seeking to divert it?

If he is aware that The One reloads the matrix, and that zion is never destroyed for good, then he knows that even if he gets the codes, destroying zion is not the goal of his superiors. Which would mean... that maybe he can destroy zion forever? by entering the mainframe.. can he permanently destroy zion? Would this indicate he's actually implying that Zion IS a virtual reality, and that ITS mainframe is the key to destroying it for good?
On a side note, in the first movie, his goal was to "escape the matrix".. which he has succeeded in, at least in part. Eric Noah mentioned in another thread that perhaps a subtle subtext of the movie is that the independent programs are searching for ways to escape the matrix... so maybe thats whats going on here.

Further, why were the agents trying to kill the keymaker? Doesnt this strike you as odd? According to the architect, neo was supposed to find the keymaker to "Reload" the matrix. so if the agents killed him, that wouldnt have happened.. so are the agents working for a different entity than the architect? One that is counter to the goals of reloading the matrix.. why would that be? Maybe the A.I. Leaders of the agents are wiped out every time the system is rebooted, and they lose their identity.. so they actually want to pervert the architect's desires. which begs the question, why kill the keymaker and not the oracle? Smith seems to find her easily enough. The Merovingian seems to want to keep the keymaker alive, but unused.. so his goals are similar to those of the agents, but he has a stake in the keymaker, so he doesnt want him destroyed...

 

[Welverin]

When the agent tried to kill the Key Master (anyone catch the gate keeper?), KM said they were just doing what they were programed to do and the agent replied then with something to the effect of "you were programed to die," that makes me think the agents don't know what's "really" going on. That would help explain Smiths actions, at least in the first movie.

As for the Merovingian trying to stop Neo and gang, I suspect it's just part of his role, can't make it to easy after all.

 

[John Crichton]

I think the Agents are just pawns in the game. Smith is now more and he knows it. He just doesn't know enough, it seems so he is trying to learn. I think back to the Trek ep of Moriarty vs the Data Sherlock Holmes. Smith is testing the limits of his power and realizing there is so much more out there. That and his strings have been cut. He is now "free" to make his own choices.

As for this battle for the mainframe, it seems like an elaborate setup for The One. He needs badies to fight and believe that he is The One so the Matrix can continue its cycle and keep being reborn (which is essentially immortality). I still think that there is another twist on the way in the form of the Architect. He is the failsafe and the One can actually change things and that there is more than just the 2 outcomes. The movie seems to stress choice, perception and consequence (or reaction) and not just fate. Faith, yes but that is something different.

 

[Welverin]

As for this battle for the mainframe, it seems like an elaborate setup for The One. He needs badies to fight and believe that he is The One so the Matrix can continue its cycle and keep being reborn (which is essentially immortality).

First I have to say that I don't think and have never been under the impression that the one is ever the same person, just that a new person is born however often with said powers. At most I would attribute the Ones powers as being similar to the Captain Universe thing in the Marvel Universe, a set of powers that passes from one person to another when necessary.

The movie seems to stress choice, perception and consequence (or reaction) and not just fate. Faith, yes but that is something different.

It does, but it leaves me wondering if the characters really don't and just led to believe they do to keep them in line. After all perception is more important than reality when it comes to someones reactions to an event.

 

[drothgery]

On a side note, in the first movie, his goal was to "escape the matrix".. which he has succeeded in, at least in part. Eric Noah mentioned in another thread that perhaps a subtle subtext of the movie is that the independent programs are searching for ways to escape the matrix... so maybe thats whats going on here.

Either Neo discovered the '2199' world of Zion and such is just another Matrix, or the movie took a very unexpected detour into psi-heavy sci-fi at the end. I think the former's more likely.

 

[John Crichton]

First I have to say that I don't think and have never been under the impression that the one is ever the same person, just that a new person is born however often with said powers. At most I would attribute the Ones powers as being similar to the Captain Universe thing in the Marvel Universe, a set of powers that passes from one person to another when necessary.

I didn't mean that the One will be immortal, I meant the Matrix will be immortal. If a program's purpose to simply keep running then there is a definate reason and motivation to keep this elaborate cycle going. The Matrix seems to be amused. Or not. Who's to know at this point.

It does, but it leaves me wondering if the characters really don't and just led to believe they do to keep them in line. After all perception is more important than reality when it comes to someones reactions to an event.

The movie says straight out (in the form of the Oracle) that the characters have already made decisions about future events and their purpose now is to figure out why which brings the question of free will and control.

However, this is also a superhero-type trilogy with all the trappings, wrapped in some important-sounding dialogue. If this movie was truly dark and heading in the direction of no free will for the humans than there would be little point to all of this. It's about the conflict between Man vs. Machine & Man vs. Himself. They seem to be going in the direction of having control over most of the humans plugged into the Matrix, with the exception of the Anomoly or the One. The One is unable to be corrupted by the system and therefore can transcend it; there where the superpowers come in.

So in all this, the final conflict comes down to the One vs. the Matrix which in the end could be considered Man vs. Man in the form of a Machine as the Matrix has been very humanized up to this point. I would be impressed if they made the third movie much darker than I am thinking. If the final scene is seeing everyone we have seen so far still plugged into the Matrix, Neo breaking free and unable to do anything for the rest of humanity, that would be cool, to me. But I don't think that's what is going to happen. I believe the W. Bros will go for the happy ending, no matter which direction the story is going.

As as for perception being more important than reality when making a reaction, sure that can be true. But who's perception are we talking about, the Machines or Man's? I know we are referencing man since his is the protagonist, but I still contend that faith has a good deal to do with this whole puzzle of what is really going on. Is Morpheus simply being lead to believe something based on his faith that is wrong? I don't believe so. He is the movie's core and its spiritual center. He has yet to be tested and the 3rd movie will be his test. Morpheus seems to be somewhat ignorant to a good deal of the events happening because he believes in the end that his faith will win the day, which is one of the basic things that makes us human. They went out of their way to show us a very human scene (the "rave") and toss faith around a lot. That makes me think that it will be faith and to a lesser degree love that will be the determining factor. The indominable human spirit and all that. The only way that the movies are not about those things is if Man doesn't win in the end.

I have now officially filled my ramble quota for the month of May...

 

[Assenpfeffer]

Re: Re: Zion Mainframe...

Originally posted by drothgery Either Neo discovered the '2199' world of Zion and such is just another Matrix, or the movie took a very unexpected detour into psi-heavy sci-fi at the end. I think the former's more likely.

Or, and I don't know that this is any more likely than those scenarios, Neo plugs back into the Matrix at the very end without the hardware, and goes catatonic because of it. This would mean that the sentinels would have to be part of the Matrix, somehow, or at least connected to it.

It's a thought, anyway.

 

[Welverin]

I didn't mean that the One will be immortal, I meant the Matrix will be immortal.

Ah, but there seem to be plenty of people who think it is the same person being continually reborn. Of course there seem to be quite a few people who think Zion was destroy even though it should be fairly clear that didn't happen, oh well.

The movie says straight out (in the form of the Oracle) that the characters have already made decisions about future events and their purpose now is to figure out why which brings the question of free will and control.

Yes, that is said, maybe more than once, but we also know that everyone revolving around the one is being manipulated to cause a particular chain of events to happen so I won't accept what she says so easily.

 

[John Crichton]

Ah, but there seem to be plenty of people who think it is the same person being continually reborn. Of course there seem to be quite a few people who think Zion was destroy even though it should be fairly clear that didn't happen, oh well.

I see. I hadn't heard that theory just yet.

 

[RangerWickett]

There are two theories I'm in favor of:

1. A Twist on the 'It's all a dream' Ending
At the end, Neo is victorious, and he saves the world. Then we cut, and see a group of machines watching a scanner, monitoring Neo. He's still plugged into the Matrix, or rather a sub-section of the Matrix, and they're watching him as he 'wins.' Imagine, it's kinda like you're a computer security engineer, and you have a virus that's causing problems. So you load the virus onto a non-essential computer, where it can't spread, and you see if you can get rid of the virus. So the Machines have figured out that Neo really is a threat. The simulation took only moments to run, and now that Neo has shown he'd be a danger, they kill him.

But this one doesn't feel good narratively, and it wouldn't be a happy ending. Audiences would be pissed unless it was done incredibly well (or unless they only showed the final scene after the credits). Also, it doesn't make sense why we'd see scenes from the perspective of anyone other than Neo, since Neo is the only one who's real. As such, though a twist might be nice, I doubt they'd use this.

2. Good Job, Now You've Doomed Mankind
In truth, around the year 2100, humanity started a global thermonuclear war between rival superpowers, which seared the sky and made the world nearly uninhabitable. The only possible way to save the human race and culture as it was would be to preserve a digital record of that culture, and to hide the human race from the ravaged wasteland until the world became habitable. The machines were responsible for maintaining a virtual world, and slowly repopulating the human race while keeping them in a safe environment. Then, after a few centuries, once the world was starting to recover, people would be able to leave the Matrix and start a new life in reality. Human culture would be preserved.

Unfortunately, human culture can't be allowed to advance too far, or else the machines won't be able to keep the charade up, so they have to reboot the Matrix occasionally. All of what the architect said is true, and indeed, he knew Neo would take the door that would not reboot the Matrix, because indeed, now is time for the Matrix to end, and for humanity to be released into a new world. Unfortunately, Zion is still a problem, because its inhabitants would not likely go along with the orders of the Machines, so the city has to be destroyed.

Neo saves Zion, and shuts down the Matrix, which kills the AI machines. But without the AI machines, hundreds of millions of humans are gonna be stuck up in huge skyscrapers crackling with electricity, doomed to die. So Neo has saved the day, and when he finally gets to the surface, he sees a pristine version of The City (whatever city it is they live in in the movie), just ready and waiting for humans to move in. Good job Neo, you just screwed humanity.