Heroes# 12: Our Father/Dec 2008

[DonTadow]

Personally, I think the big-picture complaints should be the focus. A lot of the minor things people are going on about are on the nitpicky side, and occlude the major problems. For instance, most character's power aren't defined with any major boundaries, so why should we kvetch when they function in a way we're not familiar with? The Haitian's powers were never well-defined, so what's the big deal with finding out they have limitations? Likewise, how do we know that Arthur's clairvoyance inherited from Isaak via Peter wouldn't allow him to paint a pictur of a past event as well as a future? We haven't seen it happen before, but then again it's not a particularly useful application of that power....unless you're a time traveler.

The big picture stuff IMO consists of things like the lack of a proactive protagonist. Peter's clueless, Nathan flip-flops, Matt is trying to rise to the occasion but not quite managing. Hiro has become nothing but a fanboy pastiche that's being run into the ground--amnesiafied one minute, depowered the next. Sure, time travel is a plot-busing power, as is immortality and power absorption, so find a permanent way to rein them in rather than these constant stop-gap measures. The eclipse would have been a good way to reboot many characters; their powers fade, and come back changed. In general, the show needs to feel like it has direction. Right now, they're meandering. It feels like they're trying to run out the clock.

I do see those as being apart of the overall big problem of the show, don't get me wrong, but this thread is about this episode, so i keep my critisism on this show and how it is an example of the inconsistency all season. Now, if there was a heroes season 3 thread, my comments and others would be different, but we're talikng about this episode and why it was so horrible. The problem is, and I think someone touched on it earlier, is that, if your assumptions are correct, then the writers are hoping that we stretch our believablity in order to understand the show. This show won't survive with that kind of hope thinking, because for most of the public they'd sooner flip to MNF rather than try to grapple hook to the logic strongs of the author.

Foreshadowing is a beautiful thing, because it makes the reader/watcher not feel like the plot hammer isn't too heavy. I thought the first season did a great job of that, but this episode is an example of since, where things happen and at best theres a plot string we're suppose to follow but goes unsaid. For instance, what would have made that Arthur scene belieable. Show me a 2 minute cut of him wanting to know where the catalyst is, then painting its location. You want to make the nerfing of the hatian seem real.

Earlier in the season, when we see the flashback of the poisoning. Show how difficult it is for the hatian to shut down arthur. Heck, have the hatian explain how his powers work.

 

[Dinkeldog]

I'm finding an overall different theme to this season. Previous seasons were about the Heroes and their nemeses and their powers driving things--to the point of Maya coming to New York and Sylar going apeshit trying to learn everything. This season seems to be more about what makes someone a hero or villain regardless of whether or not they have powers. It does lead to a lot of fluidity in the powers, especially with Papa Petrelli the Power Stealer on the scene, but it gives some interesting character development, as with everyone's favorite Indian professor.

Otherwise, there are very few people with very well defined powers--Elle, Nathan, Angela, and the Haitian, for example. (The Haitian's power is basically a shut-down--he can shut down either a power or the conscious brain entirely.) Of these, the only real primary original character is Nathan. And with him, his Hero-ness or Villainry isn't driven by his Hero Power, but by his temporal power. And he's still in flux--he tries to help the Marine understand that having a Power isn't necessarily what's going to get him what he wants. Then again, Nate's Power is pretty meh. The real movers and shakers in the Hero world are the ones that have meta-powers--Peter, Papa, Angela, Hiro, Sylar--that affect other people. Instead, Nate is most interesting because a) he was given his meh-power and b) he's a Senator.

 

[wolff96]

Show me a 2 minute cut of him wanting to know where the catalyst is, then painting its location. You want to make the nerfing of the hatian seem real.

Earlier in the season, when we see the flashback of the poisoning. Show how difficult it is for the hatian to shut down arthur. Heck, have the hatian explain how his powers work.

I really like and agree with the first part -- show, don't tell. And for god's sake, don't make your AUDIENCE guess to fill in the blanks. Even having Arthur comment on how he knew when and where to be would be better than him just magically showing up. The Catalyst as plot macguffin was fine, but let's not see a magical light altering a lab-created formula.

Which is really fun in and of itself; how could the catalyst have been a known thing, passed along the family line for a while (as Kaito/Hiro's Mom implied in their conversation), if the formula was created by the Elder Heroes? Sigh.

The other head-scratcher was the rotating door of "who is the catalyst". I'm wondering if we're not meant to believe that Claire WAS the catalyst until she and Hiro went back and changed that fact -- though this leads to the unfortunate conclusion that she's STILL the catalyst.

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To comment on the Haitian's powers versus Arthur... The last time they went head-to-head, Arthur wasn't aware of his presence (mind-reading is a pretty subtle thing to notice that you're missing) until he was already poisoned and dying.

This time around, he was healthy and actively resisting. That's not to say that the timing wasn't convenient on the Haitian's collapse -- just in time for Sylar to come in and do his thing.

WHY IN THE WORLD didn't Sylar take the Haitian's power at that point, though? He was down from the fight with Arthur (temporarily). Beat him against the walls a bit with TK to make sure he stays knocked out, then can-opener his skull and make yourself TRULY unstoppable. Come on, Sylar! Villainy 101, there...

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Finally, my wish for the last episode / next season:
NOBODY rescues Hiro. He shows up in the future with almost no accent, his sword-skills polished to a razor's edge.

In short, during the 16-year interval to "catch up" to the present day, meek 'current' Hiro becomes bad-ass 'future' Hiro.

THAT would make me happy. Which means it won't happen, of course.

 

[Arnwyn]

This episode clearly showed me why I always return to keep watching this show... and why I end up loathing it at the same time.

The first three-quarters of this episode was (barring a couple of moments) among the best I've seen this season and reminded me why I liked Season 1 so much. Everything with Hiro, as well as Ando, speed-chick, and Matt was pretty darn good in that last episode.

Then, as another post so eloquently put it - we have a scene which craps all over everything I just saw. Thanks a bunch, Heroes.

And Sylar still sucks this season.

 

[Xath]

Finally, my wish for the last episode / next season:
NOBODY rescues Hiro. He shows up in the future with almost no accent, his sword-skills polished to a razor's edge.

In short, during the 16-year interval to "catch up" to the present day, meek 'current' Hiro becomes bad-ass 'future' Hiro.

THAT would make me happy. Which means it won't happen, of course.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I don't think Arthur Patrelli is out of the picture. Sure, he's currently dead. Claire's been dead before too, and she got over it. I think the Catalyst leaving his body only proves that he actually died, not that he's going to stay that way. Take the Haitan away, or remove the bullet from his brain and he'll start to regenerate. I really hope they take care of him for good, but I've never put too much faith in Peter's intelligence.

 

[DonTadow]

Finally, my wish for the last episode / next season:
NOBODY rescues Hiro. He shows up in the future with almost no accent, his sword-skills polished to a razor's edge.

In short, during the 16-year interval to "catch up" to the present day, meek 'current' Hiro becomes bad-ass 'future' Hiro.

THAT would make me happy. Which means it won't happen, of course.

This would be the best ending for this season. Further more, you can add to the Hiro lore with tales of his encounters over the last 16 years filtered throughout upcoming seasons.

It also return that mysterious super hiro that we couldn't wait to see grow up.

Sadly, the way they've treated Hiro this season, Hiro comes back drenched in urine with a bale of cotton candy screaming the red coats are coming.

 

[Elodan]

This episode clearly showed me why I always return to keep watching this show... and why I end up loathing it at the same time.

The first three-quarters of this episode was (barring a couple of moments) among the best I've seen this season and reminded me why I liked Season 1 so much. Everything with Hiro, as well as Ando, speed-chick, and Matt was pretty darn good in that last episode.

Then, as another post so eloquently put it - we have a scene which craps all over everything I just saw. Thanks a bunch, Heroes.

Pretty much sums up my feelings.

Anyone else think 'catalyst' = midochlorians?

 

[wolff96]

Side thought that occurred to me...

It would be an interesting reversal of the relationship if Ando succeeds in getting powers and Hiro stays powerless.

Those two have always been my favorite pairing on the show, especially since they're such a (deliberate, I'm sure) echo of Primatech's "One of us, one of them" modus operandi. If suddenly Ando has all the powers and Hiro is left with sword skills... that would make for an interesting inversion.

AND it would still maintain the echo of Primatech.

 

[Relique du Madde]

The only problem with that suggestion is that Ando tends to act wiser then Hiro which would cause him to be totally broken as a character.

Hiro: "Ando! Sylar killed Mr. Turtlesan! He now has the power of cute turtle-ness! We must stop him before he kills again!"
Ando: "Why don't we teliport to before he stole most of his powers... He will then be defenseless against your swordman skills."
Hiro: "We can't. Heroes don't kill people out of anger. That is what villains do. We are not villains, we are heroes. Batman would never kill the Joker because the joker got him mad..."
Ando: "But he did."
Hiro: "Yes, but non-canon one shot stories doesn't count. "
Ando: *SIGH*

 

[Plane Sailing]

This episode started a 7 but ended as a 3. At least next week the pain will end.

My feelings exactly.

I really liked the start, with Claire and Hiro contacting their respective parents. I found Hiro's reunion with his mother especially touching - I loved the acting at that part.

Then it is all tossed in the bin by Arthur magically appearing at the right moment and stealing Hiro's power. Stupid, stupid scriptwriting.

The remains of the show were a huge annoyance - from Peter not taking the shot, to the Haitians lack of ability to do stuff to the extent he normally does. Where is the smiley for 'throws hands up in the air'?

The first part showed how good it could be...