Insight's Secret Wars OOC Thread

The Removeable and Easily Removeable flaws only apply to the base power of an effect, cost wise. Thus, you take the total points of your base effect, add the alternate effects, and take off the flaw from the total. Using that formula, your Mark IV Omniblaster array would cost 29pp and your suit array would cost 23pp. Since these are devices, the flaw still applies to each of the slots; otherwise the slot cost would exceed the base effect's cost.

Oh, okay I didn't catch that from the...huh?

Let me try to walk myself through this, cuz I'm not sure where you're getting those figures. First the Omniblaster.

Base power is the Multiattack blast. Cost is 31pp. With 4 AP's, the total cost o the entire array is 35pp.

Now the way I did it was to apply the Removable flaw to the 35pp...that is, the total cost of the array...base cost plus AP cost. 35 divided by 5 is 7, and it's -2 per 5 because it's easily removable with a Disarm check, for a total of 14 points off. 35 minus 14 equals 21.

Ok. Now, if I read you right...and I'm not sure I am because it kind of looks like you're saying I did it -right- the first time...but assuming that's not it, then I assume I'd apply the flaw only to the BASE power, then add the AP costs AFTER that. Thus 31 divded by 5 is 6, times 2 is 12. I subtract 12 from 31 and get 19. Then I add the 4 Alternate Effects onto that, for a total cost of 23.

So as far as I can see, the Omniblaster either is 21 points (if you apply the flaw to the total cost of the array) or is 23 points (if you apply the flaw only to the base power's cost). I don't see a scenario where the cost is 29 at all.

Similarly, if I change the flaw application on the hypersuit so that it doesn't apply to the various Alternate Effects, then it costs 1 point more...maybe 2 if you don't allow rounding. I'm not seeing how you can get it to cost 23 though.

You may need to walk me through your reasoning here. My head appears to be rapidly increasing in density (now there's a superpower...).

I just re-read the Removeable flaw and realized that it deducted the -1 or -2 per 5pp spent, not just a flat -1 or -2. My apologies. Ignore the above. The flaw still only applies its benefit (cost-wise) to the base effect (it applies to alternate effects but only in terms of fitting them into the slots themselves, if that makes sense).

Now I have to go back through 30 NPCs and fix their powers...

:o
 

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Hmm...the description says the flaw cost applies to an entire power, not to any single effect within a power, which suggested to me that it would be the total cost...but you're the GM. I'll recalc and work it out.
 

It's built in a confusing way, then. You may want to consider making them separate slots.

It is a suggested advantage of Move Object but I can rewrite it you wish.

Edit: Actually now that I look at my sheet in hero lab I may not have paid a premium.
 
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I just re-read the Removeable flaw and realized that it deducted the -1 or -2 per 5pp spent, not just a flat -1 or -2. My apologies. Ignore the above. The flaw still only applies its benefit (cost-wise) to the base effect (it applies to alternate effects but only in terms of fitting them into the slots themselves, if that makes sense).

Now I have to go back through 30 NPCs and fix their powers...

:o

By RAW it applies to the total cost.

For example a 30 point array with 5 alternates is 35pp. With removable you would subtract 7pp (-1 per 5pp). This is supported by the officially licensed Hero Lab and many "official" character write-ups.

However as GM, Insight is of course free to interpret it as he sees fit. :)
 

By RAW it applies to the total cost.

For example a 30 point array with 5 alternates is 35pp. With removable you would subtract 7pp (-1 per 5pp). This is supported by the officially licensed Hero Lab and many "official" character write-ups.

However as GM, Insight is of course free to interpret it as he sees fit. :)

Right, but you don't subtract the -1 or -2 from the total array cost for each slot that also has the flaw. I think that's where the confusion was setting in.

Anyway, I think this issue is resolved.
 

Ahh! Is that what you thought I was doing?

Okay, NOW I see. So you thought I was counting -2 for the base cost, then -2 for each of the AP's...

Oh man, now I think I understand your reaction better. Okay. So really, I was doing it right...since I did it exactly as Hero4Hire was saying. -2 per 5pts of the total cost of the array.

Hee hee. All this time, I was never quite sure where the wires were crossed.
 

Wrecking Ball Feature: I'd wanted to talk to you about this, I'd been thinking something along the lines of a +2 circumstance bonus for wrecking 'normal' objects (Walls, doors, anything not a defice/special item/etc).

Inertial Slam:
I'd already changed it away from Area to Multiattack, post/reasoning here:
Anyways.. Hmm, I kinda wanted it to be an attack, I've found that 'always the same dc' attacks are kinda boring for me. I do plan on using Power/accurate attacks, but not in a way that negates the penalties (Just for the 'normal' usage of them)..

3e has a Multiattack extra that could work for what I wanted to do.. I originally avoided it b/c it sounded like it was only built for ranged attacks, but I could substitute my movement speed if Insight's ok with that... it doesn't actually give a 'range' for the multiple targets thing, it says you 'spray' the multiattack across an arc, but doesn't give a size of the arc. I'm guessing running past multiple opponents and shoulder-checking each of them would work just the same, so long as I don't exceed my (Substantial) movement rate.


How's this look?
Inertial Slam: Damage 7 (Str Based), Penetrating 7, Multiattack 10, Accurate, Limited: Move with attack using Speed(-7), Side Effect: If any target successfully resists, Inertia takes damage(-7) - 11pp

Dropping Area to Multiattack actually saves me 4 points, even taking it up to 10 to account for Str (Since I had area rank 2 before, costing 14). Woot!

Also, question to Insight : The 'takes damage' side effect.. As is, I only have that side effect on the 7 damage from the attack itself, so would that mean he only takes an equivalent 7 Damage attack when someone 'blocks' him? (Could still add up if he tries multiattacking and three people block..)

The way I'm envisioning it is Inertia running around the battlefield smashing into people kinda like a pinball. I was pondering the 'full action' flaw, but then 'technically' he wouldn't be able to move, which negates the whole point.
The 'must use speed' limit was to show that he's actually physically moving the entire distance between everything he attacks (Meaning he's having to use his move action as well), so it's kind of a combo between 'full action' and 'requires movement'.

Basically the way I see it is he starts wherever he starts, moves to each of his targets after building up some speed, hits them, and continues bouncing/smashing into other targets before finally stopping.

I could just drop the multi-attack and just make it a straight up attack. Give him move-by action to account for the 'movement' theme.

I'll give other options some more thought.. what do you think?
 

Posted Blitz to the RG now, with the change detailed here. Only open question is, whether I need to make the slight corrections to the background (change her mother's name to match hers) or not. :)

Bye
Thanee
 

Not the GM, but the DC character Jesse Quick is a legacy hero and daughter of Johnny Quick and Liberty Belle. She has inherited the powers of both parents, but her name is only a variant of her father's super name.

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Visitor is ready in the RG. The name can stay, or should I rename him 'Grey Guardian'to sound more super hero like? I would prefer him to be called D'lyn by his teammates anyway, much as the Martian Manhunter is usually referred as J'onn.
 

Wrecking Ball Feature: I'd wanted to talk to you about this, I'd been thinking something along the lines of a +2 circumstance bonus for wrecking 'normal' objects (Walls, doors, anything not a defice/special item/etc).

I would allow a +2 effect/damage bonus as long as it is basically "scenery", aka unattended items like doors, walls, lamp-posts, etc. Nothing that anyone - PC or NPC - paid points for.

Inertial Slam:
I'd already changed it away from Area to Multiattack, post/reasoning here:


The way I'm envisioning it is Inertia running around the battlefield smashing into people kinda like a pinball. I was pondering the 'full action' flaw, but then 'technically' he wouldn't be able to move, which negates the whole point.
The 'must use speed' limit was to show that he's actually physically moving the entire distance between everything he attacks (Meaning he's having to use his move action as well), so it's kind of a combo between 'full action' and 'requires movement'.

Basically the way I see it is he starts wherever he starts, moves to each of his targets after building up some speed, hits them, and continues bouncing/smashing into other targets before finally stopping.

I could just drop the multi-attack and just make it a straight up attack. Give him move-by action to account for the 'movement' theme.

I'll give other options some more thought.. what do you think?

Well, first off, there is no "full action" flaw in 3rd ed, so that's not really an option. To simulate such a thing, you could take the flaw "Activation" (Move Action) for a -1pp/rank deduction. This would require that you use both a Move and Standard action to make the attack. This may be the best option. Technically, with that flaw, you spend the Move action, but don't actually move. I think we could allow the flaw as long as your character moves during the attack, but ends up in the same place at the end of the attack. The "moving" part of it would be a special effect and you would gain nothing from it (as it should be, since this is a flaw).

To simulate taking damage if the attack doesn't affect the target, take the "Side Effect" flaw (the -1pp/rank version). It would end up being a Damage effect equal in points to your attack effect.

By RAW, Multi-attack is not going to let you move between targets, but I do like the idea of allowing it with cumulative penalties. I'm not sure what the benefit would be over Area. I guess the costs would be quite different, though.

Option 1: Multi-Attack
INERTIAL SLAM
Effect: Damage 7 (add str)
Extras: Accurate 1, Move Between Targets 1*, Multi-Attack (Multiple Target) 10, Penetrating 7
Flaws: Activation (Move Action), Side Effect (Target resists; Damage 11)
Total Cost: 11pp

*This is a 1pp extra that would allow you to use Move-By Action multiple times as part of this effect. You would need the Move-By Action advantage (which I think you have already).

Option 2: Area
INERTIAL SLAM
Effect: Damage 7 (add str)
Extras: Area Shapeable (+1 Size; 60ft) 20, Penetrating 7, Selective 10*
Flaws: Activation (Move Action), Side Effect (Target resists; Damage 30)
Total Cost: 30pp

*I added Selective because, even though you could control where your effect goes (Shapeable), if an enemy was engaged in melee with an ally, you would have to target both of them. Obviously, you could choose not to go this route, with obvious repurcussions.

Option 2 is really bad for that Side Effect, so obviously, some other flaw would need to take its place or it would have to be something other than Damage.

In the final analysis, I believe you are better off with Option 1. It's your call, of course.
 
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