D&D 5E Why the claim of combat and class balance between the classes is mainly a forum issue. (In my opinion)

I'm going to stand by the idea that 3e does not do horror particularly well. The characters are just too capable. Far too powerful.
I thought that Heroes of Horror was one of the better 3e supplements. I don't disagree with the notion that characters being powerful is a problem for horror, but 3e is a system you can work with.

Take away some of the specific D&D-isms however, and CoC and Modern do horror quite well off of the same engine.
 

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D&D, for me, has been strongly a heroic fantasy and pulp fantasy game. Neither lends itself to the idea of PC's being on the weak end of the power scale. I just haven't played D&D at that end of the spectrum to be honest. 3d6 in order? That may have been Method 1, but it was never the default where I played. It was always 4d6 arrange to taste.

So, yeah, I saw 3e as a major powering down of PC's relative to the creatures that they faced.

I have always seen D&D in a different light. I have always seen PC's as "adventurers" which can carry different meanings. This allows you to be anything, from a hero to a plunderer. Before 4th edition, D&D basically left it in the hands of the players. You could have three different people in a group who all have the same goal but three different intentions. The paladin wants to liberate the village from the vile, evil, red dragon, while the rogue wants the crap load of gold the beast has accumulated, while the mage wants those rare tomes he heard the dragon was in possession of.

In the end, everyone gets what they want and the villagers down below see them all as heroes while the paladin could be the only one who cares. This is how I have always seen D&D. Leave heroic play up to each individual player or group, don't create rules that cater to that playstyle cause not everyone wants it all the time.
 

Then again, I wasn't a bit fan of D&D horror in the first place in 2e for exactly the same reason. 2e characters are just too powerful to be challenged particularly by 2e monsters. You start so high on the power scale that minor undead are a speed bump. The only real challenge is "Do I have the right plus sword to kill this thing?"

i didn't find this in either edition. It is quite easy to tailor encounters to party power level. In 2E first level characters are quite weak, really minor undead were still a threat. The only character with any real endurance for combat is the fighter at that stage (the ranger and paladin too). But even they run out of HP quickly. Once they start gaining levels, there are plenty of potent threats to keeo them challenged, in ravenloft there are also lots of monster variations, and the precepts of the van richten books make it easy to increase or lower the challenge level.

In aloy of adventures, the point was to find the creature's weakness, which required investigation and planning (the van richten books are basically models for monster hunt campaigns). So the phs one sword becomes a feature, not a bug. Part of the adventure may be tracking down the sword that can harm the beast. It wasn't a very combat heavy game. For me, both editions worked well for investigations and monster hunts.

Also, in Ravenloft, Undead are harder to turn, lycanthropy is harder to cure, and there are lots if mechanics to support the genre. So spell effects and magical items are altered. Powers checks have a big impact on stuff like tomb raiding, and fear-horror checks can make you paralytic.

D&D, for me, has been strongly a heroic fantasy and pulp fantasy game. Neither lends itself to the idea of PC's being on the weak end of the power scale. I just haven't played D&D at that end of the spectrum to be honest. 3d6 in order? That may have been Method 1, but it was never the default where I played. It was always 4d6 arrange to taste.

for 1E 4d6 was default. For 2E 3d6 down the line was method 1 which led to most groups i encountered using it as default. But there were multiple methods, so they were all kosher. However, if the issue for you was the pcs were too powerful in ravenloft, useing method 1 was an ideal solution. That mkes uber characters a lot harder. Also, eliminating the complete books (or seriously limiting them) will dramatically reduce power levels in both 2E and 3E. The complete books in 2E were entirely optional. The whole system had tons of optional rules, so it was quite easy to reduce character power. The com
complete books in 3e were subject to GM oversight.
 
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I have always seen D&D in a different light. I have always seen PC's as "adventurers" which can carry different meanings. This allows you to be anything, from a hero to a plunderer. Before 4th edition, D&D basically left it in the hands of the players. You could have three different people in a group who all have the same goal but three different intentions. The paladin wants to liberate the village from the vile, evil, red dragon, while the rogue wants the crap load of gold the beast has accumulated, while the mage wants those rare tomes he heard the dragon was in possession of.

In the end, everyone gets what they want and the villagers down below see them all as heroes while the paladin could be the only one who cares. This is how I have always seen D&D. Leave heroic play up to each individual player or group, don't create rules that cater to that playstyle cause not everyone wants it all the time.

ok I'm sure this is going to open another can of worms, but what in 4e stops the following:
The paladin wants to liberate the village from the vile, evil, red dragon, while the rogue wants the crap load of gold the beast has accumulated, while the mage wants those rare tomes he heard the dragon was in possession of.

I mean in 4e you could even slightly tweek it
The Warden wants to liberate the village from the vile, evil, red dragon, while the Blackguard wants the crap load of gold the beast has accumulated, while the Warlord wants those rare tomes he heard the dragon was in possession of.
the major difference is what again???
 

ok I'm sure this is going to open another can of worms, but what in 4e stops the following:


I mean in 4e you could even slightly tweek it

the major difference is what again???

In 4th edition you were pitched as a hero from the start. That is why there was less focus on evil aligned campaigns and why you started off as more powerful than other editions.
 

In 4th edition you were pitched as a hero from the start. That is why there was less focus on evil aligned campaigns and why you started off as more powerful than other editions.

um... how does that stop you from motivating your character how ever you want? I mean really the ones you said "the rogue wants the crap load of gold the beast has accumulated" can be unaligned and supported right out the gate...
 


um... how does that stop you from motivating your character how ever you want? I mean really the ones you said "the rogue wants the crap load of gold the beast has accumulated" can be unaligned and supported right out the gate...

What are you even on about?

I am talking about the default of the game. 4th edition's emphasis was on the players being heroes. Previous editions were more focused on the players being adventurers. Of course you can make the game into what ever you want but that's not what we are discussing here. Mechanics wise, 4th edition made you more powerful in the beginning because the game wanted you to be the hero and not the common joe who could become a hero one day.
 

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