D&D 5E Do you feel like the "Sorcerer" is really lacking in options?

[FormerlyHemlock]

But we agree that it has too little if I don't like to blast?

Depends on who "we" is. I agree, in the sense that I like to do more than blast and I don't really want to play a sorc. (Paladin 6/Sorc X is more tempting to me though, because then you can do blast + protect, and you can twin Shield of Faith and cast Bless, etc., etc.)

I don't think that makes pure sorcs bad, though, just not something that interests me. Clearly there are people who like to blast.

 

[lall]

But we agree that it has too little if I don't like to blast?

I've only looked it at through blasting eyes. But as they have the wizard's spell list minus X and know less spells, I would think it has too little if it's trying to do wizard stuff.

 

[Grakarg]

Warmage

Ok, here's a more formal version of what I mentioned earlier, inspired by the Warmages from 3.5 Complete Arcane. The Fire Hawks of Taarth Moorda salute you!

Warmage
1st level, Gain proficiency with light armor and shields. Gain proficiency with all simple weapons. Gain the War caster feat.
6th level, War Magic (cast a cantrip, bonus weapon attack)
14th level, Extra Attack. Gain an extra weapon attack whenever you cast a cantrip, or use the attack action to make a weapon attack.
18th level, Warmage Edge - Whenever the warmage causes damage with a 1st level spell or higher, they may add their Charisma bonus to the damage.

Design notes:
1st lvl 'feels' equivalent to Dragon Ancestor + Draconic Resilience to me.
6th lvl Same ability as the eldritch knight, a level earlier. Gives a warmage a reason to use those weapons he's lugging around.
14th lvl Extra attack, pretty unique ability for an arcane caster. So two weapon attacks and a cantrip if the warmage uses their bonus action to swing their weapon. Definitely a different 'flavor' than the other archetypes.
18th lvl Basically the 6th lvl Elemental Affinity expanded to include all attack spells (so more appropriate for 18th lvl), but without the high end damage potential of the Wild Mage's Spell Bombardment ability on big die spells, but more consistent instead.

I think the warmage definitely feels like a 'sorcerer' subclass, and its different than the blaster archtypes. Thoughts?

 

[Li Shenron]

Do you feel like the "Sorcerer" is really lacking in options?

Yes.

I think Cleric is the most lacking, Rogue second, and Sorcerer third. At least a couple of more subclasses are needed.

 

[Minigiant]

Okay. This topic makes me want to recreate the Cosmic Sorcerer. But should I go with the same 3 phases like 4th edition?

Phase of the Sun (blunt and loud, favoring blasting and fire)
Phase of the Moon (subtle and reactive, favoring enchantment and alterations)
Phase of the Stars (distant and intelligent, favoring divination and psychics)

Or should I add more: Phase of the Comet, Phase of the Void

4 would be good to match the 4 temperaments (Sun- Choleric, Moon- Sanguine, Void- Melancholy, Stars- Phlegmatic)

Soul of the Cosmic Cycle
Starting when you first take this origin at the 1st level, your spellcasting becomes tied to the cycles of the cosmos. At the end of a short or long rest, you choose from a cosmic phase below and gain its benefits.
Whenever you first take damage which brings you under your maximum hit points, your phase immediately changes to the next highest phase (or back to the phase of the sun if you were in the phase of the void).
Also when you cast a spell of the highest level you can cast (for example a 3rd level spell for a 5th level sorcerer), your phase changes at the end of the spell's duration after its effects resolve.

1. Phase of the Sun: Any spell you cast which deals fire or radiant damage is empowered as if altered by the Empower spell metamagic. You may choose to empower the spell normally if you have that option. Also you have resistance to cold damage.
2. Phase of the Moon: Any spell you cast which may cause a target to be charmed or frightened has its duration doubled as if altered by the Extened spell metamagic. Also you have resistance to psychic damage.
3. Phase of the Stars: Whenever an attack misses you or you succeed in a Dexterity saving throw to half damage, you can move up to 15 feet in any direction as a reaction. Also you have resistance to radiant damage.
4. Phase of the Void: You can see in darkness, magical or natural, as if dim light and see any invisible objects clearly within 60th feet around you. Also you have resistance to fire damage.

Cosmic Spell
Starting at the 6th level, you can invoke your current phase to cast a spell. When you are in a phase, you can cast this spell as if you know it. In addition, you may choose to not use a spell slot when casting these spell and corvert the necessary magic directly from sorcery points (For example you can spend 3 sorcery point to cast a 2nd level cosmic spell)

• Phase of the Sun: scorching ray
• Phase of the Moon: suggestion
• Phase of the Stars: misty step
• Phase of the Void: detect thoughts

Student of the Cosmos
At the 14th level, you have advantage on certain skill checks when in the corresponding cosmic phase.

• Phase of the Sun: Strength (Athletics) and Charisma (Intimidate)
• Phase of the Moon: Dexterity (Stealth) and Charisma (Deception)
• Phase of the Stars: Dexterity (Acrobatics) and Wisdom (Insight)
• Phase of the Void: Wisdom (Perception) and Charisma (Performance)

Cosmic Concordance
At the 18th level, when you change phase due you casting you highest spell, you my choose to go to the next lowest phase instead (or go you the phase of the void if in the phase of the sun)

 

[edhel]

Well I do.

You are essentially forced to go the draconian route or the wild path. I wonder if we are going to get an article or something with more options because at the moment, none of my players will play one. Some of them are saying they wish they had the options like the Pathfinder sorcerer. I've got a guy who really wants to play a Death Sorcerer who is tied to undead.

I think they should have had more in the PHB, but at least give us more in an article or something.

What is the thing that is actually lacking? You need more mechanics for something?
If you want a death sorcerer, a diamond sorcerer, or a nuclear sorcerer, you can always just rename/repaint the class abilities and change the damage types.
A death sorcerer might even have some of the npc class abilities from the DMG.

 

[Celtavian]

Yes. Sorcerer is the most boring, limited class WotC made. Pathfinder Sorcerer is ten times better than the D&D sorcerer. They could have at least included extra spells for each archetype. 15 spells known, basically one a level and metamagic. No bonus spells was a huge mistake on their part. Near zero flexibility. They are pretty much the definition of one trick ponies. The current archetypes support only a pure blaster caster. You can do that better as a sorlock because the Eldritch Blast Cantrip is better at blasting than most of the blasting spells.

 

[Li Shenron]

Elemental sorcerers are fairly well covered under the dragon ones. Would you honestly not give the pyro sorcerer a resistance to fire and bonus w fire spells? That's most of what dragon sorcs get. Swap your language and dragon affinity for elemental affinity. That leaves the wings, and you're good to go.

For my tastes, this would work fine as a custom subclass in someone's game, but it would suck to see it in a published product.

Bonus damage and defense are always useful but don't build up very strongly towards the concept, and wings and fear (which are about half of the whole subclass) are simply out of concept completely. At which point, what really makes you an "elemental sorcerer" is the selection of spells, but that's available to all, no matter the subclass.

What makes for a very good subclass in general, is as many unique abilities as you can design. That will really give some meaning to playing a character of that subclass... We have many good examples from Battlemaster's superiority dice, to combat wildshape forms for the Circle of the Moon druid, to the Wild Mage itself. Those are great because you can't get them unless you belong to that one subclass, and they aren't just a numerical boost, they are something that change your strategies or even your role in the party.

So if they design and sell us an elemental sorcerer subclass, it better be a good and interesting design.

For a start, some ability to directly control the raw elements? How about a water sorcerer who can breathe underwater, walk on water, control a body of water? Flight and levitate plus controlling winds for an air sorcerer, and maybe snuffing the air out of your lungs. Moving/sculpting the earth or passing through/meld with it for an earth sorcerer. (Fire sorcerer is indeed more difficult to make 'different' since fire is mostly just destructive)

Secondarily, some abilities derived from a higher affinity to the chosen element. More difficult to figure out, but maybe some transmutation ability from water, resilience from earth, and divination from air.

 

[Minigiant]

The sorcerer has a use enchantments and illusions.
Pershap there could be a subclass that gives the bard and enchanter run for their collective moneys?

An aura of charms. Or of sorrow. Or of rage. Or of love.
Just looking into someone's eyes could flood them with cripping despair, paralyzing awe, or blinding rage. Pumping sorcery points for more charms and illusions like a fey royal or devil king. Pacts are for cheaters, man.

"Mr Ice. Can you stand still so I can fireball you"
"Wait..what"
"Look into my eyes,, errr eye... I'm totally Grummush or whatever my name is. Now hit that other orc with your axe."
"Yes, sir"

 

[Sunseeker]

Agreed. At least the draconic bloodline is decent mechanically.

Sure, and because its not broken and most of the "draconic" features are fluff, it wouldn't be too difficult to reflavor it to something else.