D&D 5E Do you feel like the "Sorcerer" is really lacking in options?

[Dausuul]

Ok. Now that took about 25 to 30 minutes. Could it use some tweaking? Probably. But the point is that its very easy to just 'sub-out' current 5e stuff for something else and have it work straight away.

And this right here is why I like to have published material. Your fire elementalist is crazy powerful; Elemental Affinity and disadvantage to all saves versus fire spells? It's like the red draconic sorcerer (already the strongest sorcerer by a considerable margin) on steroids. Meanwhile, you have a good bit more work to do going down the sorcerer spell list and picking out which spells belong to which element, since it's not at all clear what constitutes, say, an "earth" spell. Is cloud of daggers an earth spell? What about shatter? Is cone of cold an air spell, a water spell, both, or neither? Either you make this list ahead of time or you'll be answering "Is this a water spell?" ten times a session.

Having stuff done by professional designers doesn't guarantee it won't have balance or play issues. But it does offer at least some assurance that the worst, most obvious problems have been found and fixed.

 

[Minigiant]

Overall I can see 3 types of sorcerers that give a huge spin on sorcerer

1. The Rage Mage. The sorcerer gets some barbarian class features and enters rage to blow off faces (free metamagic). Expect violent torrent of arcane hatred.
2. The Cosmic Sorcerer. A less random version of the wild mage, the cosmic sorcerers goes through a cycle of phases in order after casting a noncantrip. Each phase has different abilities.
3. The Spelltouched. The spelltouched gainedvia exposure.Spelltouchedgain abilities when exposed to magic or effect. Getting hit with fire set them alight and adds fire to their attacks. Lightning attacks cant be redirected back at enemies. Necrotic attacks can be absorbed for healing. Divination sensors are visible.

 

[MoonSong]

Ah. Here we go. I knew someone was asking for this/I'd thrown something together before...

Elemental Sorcerer: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...igin-Elemental-Affinity&p=6494195#post6494195

The problem I have with that archetype is that water and air are too focused in energy damage. The option is too much combat focused for my liking. In fact that is the thing with the current two options, they are too combat focused. There's nothing there for more sneaky or subtle sorcerers.

Overall I can see 3 types of sorcerers that give a huge spin on sorcerer

1. The Rage Mage. The sorcerer gets some barbarian class features and enters rage to blow off faces (free metamagic). Expect violent torrent of arcane hatred.d
2. The Cosmic Sorcerer. A less random version of the wild mage, the cosmic sorcerers goes through a cycle of phases in order after casting a noncantrip. Each phase has different abilities.
3. The Spelltouched. The spelltouched gainedvia exposure.Spelltouchedgain abilities when exposed to magic or effect. Getting hit with fire set them alight and adds fire to their attacks. Lightning attacks cant be redirected back at enemies. Necrotic attacks can be absorbed for healing. Divination sensors are visible.

The same, no need to turn every sorcerer into a flashy exhibitionist, more subtle and down to earth options are what's needed.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Crazy powerful? Ok, change it. Do you honestly think these "professional game designers" get everything right the first time? Hellz no! I'm sure that some playtesting of the Elementalist I whipped up would reveal problems, oversights, or other unforeseen quirks. I'd just play it and see what proved to be too powerful or too weak, then do some rewriting. Save. Hit print. Hand to player. I mean, look at what they actually produced, printed, and call 5e D&D. How many threads are out there claiming "Class Feature 17 is overpowered", or "Subclass B is super-weak", etc...etc...etc. See? These "professional designers" got stuff 'wrong' anyway...why do you place more faith in what they write versus what you (or any other DM) write?

Spells an such...an easy thing to handle, really. You could spend time going through the list to designate what spells fall under what element. Personally, I'd just do it through play and through player asking "Hey, what does Cloud of Daggers fall under?" (btw, I'd put it under air with a bit of flavourfull fluff, but an argument could be made for earth, with a bit of flavourfull fluff again). Shatter - Air again. Cone of Cold - Again, Air. Really, I may be anwering "Is this a water spell?" ten times in a session, but probably for only a session or two. Then I never have to answer it EVER AGAIN. In my case, "ever again" would equate to somewhere around 34+ years. So...two sessions of 'on the fly work', or maybe another half-hour to hour of spell checking, for a 34+ year pay off? Sounds like a pretty sweet ratio of "work to fun" to me!

I asked in another thread I started about "Aversion to Creation"; your last two sentences are a prime example of why I felt the need to ask that question. As far as I'm concerned there is really no such thing as a "professional game designer". There are only gamers who get paid to write their stuff down, and those who don't. That's the only difference as far as I can tell. Who does better stuff? That's like art; each person has different tastes, so none is really better than another. For example, I loved Gary Gygax's writing style for adventures and campaign world (Greyhawk)...and I'm not that keen on Ed Greenwoods writing style for adventures and campaign world (Forgotten Realms). Neither of which, btw, were professional game designers when they started. They were just gamers who wrote stuff down and got paid for it.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Minigiant]

The same, no need to turn every sorcerer into a flashy exhibitionist, more subtle and down to earth options are what's needed.

The cosmic sorcerer could easily be more social focuses. Solar phrases would be aggressive and intimidating with blaster bonuses of course.

But Lunar moon phases would be deceitful and sneaky with illusions, enchantments, charms, and psychic damage.

And Star phase would be more of the aloof sage with divination, abjurations, and teleports.

 

[MoonSong]

Hiya!

Crazy powerful? Ok, change it. Do you honestly think these "professional game designers" get everything right the first time? Hellz no! I'm sure that some playtesting of the Elementalist I whipped up would reveal problems, oversights, or other unforeseen quirks. I'd just play it and see what proved to be too powerful or too weak, then do some rewriting. Save. Hit print. Hand to player. I mean, look at what they actually produced, printed, and call 5e D&D. How many threads are out there claiming "Class Feature 17 is overpowered", or "Subclass B is super-weak", etc...etc...etc. See? These "professional designers" got stuff 'wrong' anyway...why do you place more faith in what they write versus what you (or any other DM) write?

Spells an such...an easy thing to handle, really. You could spend time going through the list to designate what spells fall under what element. Personally, I'd just do it through play and through player asking "Hey, what does Cloud of Daggers fall under?" (btw, I'd put it under air with a bit of flavourfull fluff, but an argument could be made for earth, with a bit of flavourfull fluff again). Shatter - Air again. Cone of Cold - Again, Air. Really, I may be anwering "Is this a water spell?" ten times in a session, but probably for only a session or two. Then I never have to answer it EVER AGAIN. In my case, "ever again" would equate to somewhere around 34+ years. So...two sessions of 'on the fly work', or maybe another half-hour to hour of spell checking, for a 34+ year pay off? Sounds like a pretty sweet ratio of "work to fun" to me!

I asked in another thread I started about "Aversion to Creation"; your last two sentences are a prime example of why I felt the need to ask that question. As far as I'm concerned there is really no such thing as a "professional game designer". There are only gamers who get paid to write their stuff down, and those who don't. That's the only difference as far as I can tell. Who does better stuff? That's like art; each person has different tastes, so none is really better than another. For example, I loved Gary Gygax's writing style for adventures and campaign world (Greyhawk)...and I'm not that keen on Ed Greenwoods writing style for adventures and campaign world (Forgotten Realms). Neither of which, btw, were professional game designers when they started. They were just gamers who wrote stuff down and got paid for it.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Professional game designers however produce official content that is AL legal and have a certain air of authority that makes it their content more consistent over different tables. Something players like me without a stable group thank them for.

 

[MoonSong]

The cosmic sorcerer could easily be more social focuses. Solar phrases would be aggressive and intimidating with blaster bonuses of course.

But Lunar moon phases would be deceitful and sneaky with illusions, enchantments, charms, and psychic damage.

And Star phase would be more of the aloof sage with divination, abjurations, and teleports.

But a tripolar subclass that tells you how to play your character isn't subtle at all, still an exhibitionist. A more stable down to earth subclass please.

 

[Greg K]

My answer is yes.
I want
a) metamagic specialist. It would be something toned down and along the lines of the variant 3e sorcerer with eschew materials and bonus metamagic feats that was not too uncommon).
b) a want an official fey bloodline sorcerer along the lines of JesterCanuck's
c) a want a divine bloodline sorcerer- the offspring of a deity. I don't want something that changes into a celestial with wings and angelic powers. I want something able to tap into into its bloodline for an authoritative/commanding voice, an ability or two related to its parent's domain and, maybe faster healing.
d) an infernal bloodline sorcerer influenced by Daimon Hellstrom (Soulfire/Hellfire and darkmagic) or Damien in "The Omen"

 

[SkidAce]

Stable down to earth subclass here yah go...

Earth Elemental Bloodline

Earth Tongue: You may speak and understand the elemental creatures of the earth.

Stone Camouflage: You have a natural affinity for rocks and stone. You have advantage on Dexterity (stealth) checks to hide in rocky terrain.

Elemental Resistance: Parts of your skin are covered by a thin layer of rocky crust. When you aren’t wearing armor, your AC equals 13 + your Dexterity modifier.

Starting at 6th level, when you cast a spell that deals damage of a type associated with earth, rocks, or stone, add your Charisma modifier to that damage. At the same time, you can spend 1 sorcery point to gain resistance to acid and lightning for one hour.

14th level : Movement of the Earth
Earth Walk. You can move across difficult terrain made of earth or stone without expending extra movement.
Merge with Stone. You can cast the pass without trace spell once with this trait, requiring no material components, and you regain the ability to cast it this way when you finish a long rest. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for this spell.

18th level: Elemental Transformation: You gain the ability to shapechange into an earth elemental of a CR equal to your level or lower for up to one hour a day.

 

[MoonSong]

Stable down to earth subclass here yah go...

Earth Elemental Bloodline

Earth Tongue: You may speak and understand the elemental creatures of the earth.

Stone Camouflage: You have a natural affinity for rocks and stone. You have advantage on Dexterity (stealth) checks to hide in rocky terrain.

Elemental Resistance: Parts of your skin are covered by a thin layer of rocky crust. When you aren’t wearing armor, your AC equals 13 + your Dexterity modifier.

Starting at 6th level, when you cast a spell that deals damage of a type associated with earth, rocks, or stone, add your Charisma modifier to that damage. At the same time, you can spend 1 sorcery point to gain resistance to acid and lightning for one hour.

14th level : Movement of the Earth
Earth Walk. You can move across difficult terrain made of earth or stone without expending extra movement.
Merge with Stone. You can cast the pass without trace spell once with this trait, requiring no material components, and you regain the ability to cast it this way when you finish a long rest. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for this spell.

18th level: Elemental Transformation: You gain the ability to shapechange into an earth elemental of a CR equal to your level or lower for up to one hour a day.

Turns into a monster, still not down to earth.