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D&D 5E Do you feel like the "Sorcerer" is really lacking in options?

Should have made a poll. :)

But yes, absolutely. I literally just posted that in another thread. Sorcerer is broad enough to support 6 or 7 subclasses, easily. Pyro sorcerer, cryo sorcerer (the Elsa build :p), a shapeshifter build, celestial sorcerer, and demonic sorcerer, just for starters.

Elemental sorcerers are fairly well covered under the dragon ones. Would you honestly not give the pyro sorcerer a resistance to fire and bonus w fire spells? That's most of what dragon sorcs get. Swap your language and dragon affinity for elemental affinity. That leaves the wings, and you're good to go.

The sorcerer has never been a shifter type class. If you're going to make one, make it a full class, rather than trying to cram shapeshifting into 3-4 class features.

Celestial/demonic origins are decent options to explore, but I think will also end up feeling familiar to dragon ones. An affinity/language, some resistance, and wings.
 

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the Jester

Legend
A bit, but I've already written up two or three homebrewed concepts, and one of my players just made a sorcerer with my "favored soul" origin. And as a folk hero, we've established that she was visited by a celestial in the middle of the city, so most everyone knows who and what she is.
 


MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Elemental sorcerers are fairly well covered under the dragon ones. Would you honestly not give the pyro sorcerer a resistance to fire and bonus w fire spells? That's most of what dragon sorcs get. Swap your language and dragon affinity for elemental affinity. That leaves the wings, and you're good to go.

The sorcerer has never been a shifter type class. If you're going to make one, make it a full class, rather than trying to cram shapeshifting into 3-4 class features.

Celestial/demonic origins are decent options to explore, but I think will also end up feeling familiar to dragon ones. An affinity/language, some resistance, and wings.

I don't know, but an elemental sorcerer focused on ice should be able to model Elsa -go on and tell me she was a wizard or warlock-, the ability to generate and shape ice and snow, and at later levels built a castle out of ice. -How many times did you see Elsa freeze and enemy to death?-. Also what do you do with water as an element? or air? those aren't obvious damaging elements, yet all you can do with dragon as an elementalist is to fry things to death.

And with celestial, wouldn't you also add some form of healing? or some way to cause radiant damage? -sorcerer spells can't do it natively-, what about the favored soul? the undead bloodline? the "I'm just magical" bloodline? those are very different from the dragon magic.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
Hiya!

No.

(PS: "You" is a generic "you", not specifically aimed at any singular person posting)

With how 5e is written, it's honestly a matter of how lazy the DM and players are. If you want an Elementalist archtype, it's dirt simple to make one; just substitute some elemental stuff in place of "draconic" for the Draconic archtype and that's pretty much it. Flavour to taste. I could probably come up with an "elementalist" archtype in about 10 minutes. Taking another 10 to 20 to write it down all nice and fancy, hit print, hand to player.

And before I hear "but I don't have time" or "but I want the professionals to do it for me"....just stop right there. If you don't have 15 minutes to spare in a day (or week!) then you have much larger problems with your life. If you have no imagination or self-confidence to create something for a game where using your imagination to create something is kinda the point...again, you have much larger problems.

Having said that, if you are primarily interested in "official Adventure League" play... then you have an honest to goodness problem and I can see the desire for a official, printed archtype(s). But if you aren't doing AL stuff... just make it up already.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

QFSMT [Quoted For SO MUCH Truth!!!] packed into one post that it needs to be posted twice.
 

Yes they are definately lacking.

Look at PF sorcerer. Considering Sorcerer is supposed to be in your blood, you could make a reasonable case for all the major monster types to have "corrupted" mortal blood with unique abilities.

Think if we got an elemental, fey(though i guess this could be the wild mage bloodline), celestial, Fiend, and undead bloodlines, you could probably cover almost any base concept. The rest could be handled with refluffing.

5e has replaced pathfinder as my go to game because I like the simplicity of it. The only thing that I miss from PF is the archetypes/build options. I don't want to see the bloat that PF has, but alot of these do need to be expanded.

Honestly, I think the subclass build of 5e is one of it's strengths. Unlike pf Archetypes that replace core abilities, subclasses just add extra effects. It's a nice little customization while staying within a general framework of the class. They could create alot of interesting options for players and really open up the design space for customization just by expanding these. But that's really a discussion for another thread
 

QFSMT [Quoted For SO MUCH Truth!!!] packed into one post that it needs to be posted twice.

Too true. this time around I'm not so much worried about official "subclasses" right now.

The problem i see with the "just make your own" or "use 3rd party stuff" is what happens when the inevitable WoTC character generator comes out. Ideally it would have a way to enter your own info.

Or better yet, it could have a marketplace of custom builds. You can see what other people have put into the system as subclasses, magic items etc, and access them from a non official tab. That would be amazing, but again is just a pipe dream at this point.
 

Chocolategravy

First Post
Well I do. You are essentially forced to go the draconian route or the wild path. I wonder if we are going to get an article or something with more options because at the moment, none of my players will play one. Some of them are saying they wish they had the options like the Pathfinder sorcerer. I've got a guy who really wants to play a Death Sorcerer who is tied to undead. I think they should have had more in the PHB, but at least give us more in an article or something.
Other than spells, most characters don't get any options until 3rd or 4rth level. If you aren't playing with feats or multi-classing then some characters only really get a single option by level 20. The fact that sorcerers get a fairly large number of spells to choose from makes them one of the classes with the most options.
 

Ristamar

Adventurer
No.

As others have mentioned, I think the blooded origin theme could easily go beyond Draconic, but that would merely entail expanding the subclass with options (like the Barbarian totems) rather than creating new subclasses. I don't think they'd vary much in terms of pure mechanics. Most of the nuance would be in the fluff.
 

pming

Legend
Hiya.

Sorcerous Origin : Elementalist

The Elemental-Touched
Elementalists are sorcerers who have bloodlines that are touched by four major elemental planes. Earth, Air, Fire and Water. All are available to the Elementalist.

Elemental Elements
At 1st level, you choose your Major element; on of Earth, Air, Fire or Water. This is the one you favor and are most easily able to channel. The opposing element is your Opposed element. The other two elements are Minor elements to you.

The elemental wheel is as follows: ...Earth --> Air --> Fire --> Water -->... Earth dominates over Air. Air dominates over Fire. Fire dominates over Water. Water dominates over Earth. Each element as a single Opposed Element. Air and Fire are opposing. Earth and Water are opposing.

Favored Element: You have Advantage casting any spell with this element as a primary component. Saving throws by those against you Favored Element spells are made at Disadvantage.

Opposed Element: You have Disadvantage casting any spells with this element as a primary component. Saves by others against these are made with Advantage.

Dominating Elements means you can substitute the dominant element for the element of the spell in question. For example, you could cast a fireball spell without fire by replacing it with air; this would essentially make the spell a “forceball”, blasting away anything in the radius. The spell effects would remain primarily the same (e.g., the “forceball” would still do 8d6 damage), but secondary effects would likely be different (e.g., nothing would catch on fire, but most things would be knocked down/prone). Substituting an element uses up one extra spell slot level (e.g., a “forceball” would be a 4th level spell slot, not 3rd).

Elemental Resilience
This is the same as the Draconic Resilience, but with regards to the Elementalists Major element. You get 1hp extra per level. Your skin, hair and eyes have a distinctly elemental twist to them (e.g., bright red skin, orange eyes and wild, yellow hair for a Fire-Favored elementalist). Additionally, your major element covers or otherwise wreaths your body (whisps of flame or coal-and-lava-like skin for a Fire elementalist).It is not total; you do not look like an elemental, there is no mistaking that, but you are obviously “covered” in some element.
Without armor on, your AC equals 13 + Dexterity modifier.

Elemental Affinity
This is the same as the Draconic Bloodline archtype power; associated with your major element.

Elemental Travel
At 14th level you can travel as if you were an elemental of your Major element. It can be effected as a bonus action on your turn. It lasts until you dismiss it as a bonus action on your turn or you fall unconscious.
You can't do this while concentrating on any spell or other special ability. Doing so automatically causes your concentrated spells to fail.

Elemental Presence
At 18th level, you can directly channel the the elements.
You can spend 5 sorcery points to channel elemental forces into being, out to a distance of 60'. The effects persist for up to 1 minute or until you loose concentration. If the elemental force you are channeling is your Major Element, it lasts up to 10 minutes at a range of 120'. If the element is in Opposition to your major element, it will last but 1d6 rounds (but still has the 60' range).

Ok. Now that took about 25 to 30 minutes. Could it use some tweaking? Probably. But the point is that its very easy to just 'sub-out' current 5e stuff for something else and have it work straight away. This can be done for ANYTHING in 5e. The way 5e is built, it all but screams tweak my @$$! (ok, that sounded...dirty...hehe......ahem....).

Bottom line: I still don't buy the "But I don't have time" excuse. I happily accept the "But I don't want to do rules stuff...it's boring to me. I want to focus on story and interesting NPC's". I totally accept that.

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

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