D&D 5E What the warlord needs in 5e and how to make it happen.

[Tony Vargas]

But please quit acting like WotC ignored warlords and their fans completely. They didn't. Can you not even admit that?

Wasn't the point that I was making.

4e got a lot of little nods in the PH - HD, Action Surge, Second Wind... Mike was paying attention to the chatter that accompanied the playtest, and 'Inspiring Leader' and a Manuever or two were among those little nods. But, none of it came close to the Warlord, and even with further nudges in that direction, like the PDK, nothing has. I feel more like I've been asked to wait than ignored.

Thus, at this point, we need a full Warlord class, really, I'm increasingly certain, under that name to settle the issue. I'm resigned to the idea that it's going to take a while, we haven't yet seen version one, and the Mystic has been through 3 versions in UA and is still look'n a tad rough.
If an eventual Warlord is good - not merely decent - wonderful, the issue would be settled in my book, and I'd move on to the next, because Warlord fans aren't the only loyal D&Ders out there still under-served. If it's a let-down. Well, IDK, I might just give up on continuing to support 5e - I wouldn't start edition war II (V?) against it or anything, I've seen too much of that to want to initiate it, myself - I'd have to cross that bridge if it ever gets built.

For now, I'd like to keep a little hope and positivity going.

 

[mellored]

Maybe use a "recharge" mechanic instead?
That way, it would depend on a die roll; but it would be the player's die roll, not the DM's, so a successful recharge would be cause for congratulations to the player, not mockery to the DM.

"When you roll a 19 or 20, regain 1 tactical point".

Ehh.. that seems to imply that you are somehow storing the power until it's ready to be unleashed, rather than seeing an opening to take advantage of.

Maybe for a vampire...
"When you roll a 19 or 20 on an attack, regain 1 blood point".


Maybe a random effect?

As a bonus action, you can look for a tactical opening. Roll a d20, and add half your myrmidon level to the results.
1-10: You don't see any opening.
11-12: The target is off-balance and you knock it prone.
13-14: You blind the target until the start of your next turn.
15-16: You gain advantage on your next attack.
....

 

[tuxgeo]

Maybe that. I was thinking more on the line of the "recharge" mechanic the monsters use: At the start of each round, roll 1d6 for each rechargable feature that cannot be used again until it recharges. On a roll of ( {range} ), that power recharges.

That way, the recharge doesn't depend on your attack roll or saving throw, but is instead simply a way to model random happenings: An opening to use it again *might* turn up within the same combat, or it might not.

 

[Tony Vargas]

As a bonus action, you can look for a tactical opening. Roll a d20, and add half your level to the results...

So, if we're thinking about the idea of 'openings' or 'tactical opportunities' there's any number of ways to go about it mechanically.

Proactive: like TWFing or Deft Action, the player uses his Bonus action to /make/ an opening. Advantage: keeps the action in-character.

DM mediated: like Inspiration, when the DM decides the player's actions in combat are in alignment with his concept and deserve a bonus, he declares an opening, allowing an ability to be used. Advantage: DM Empowering, natch.

Player resource: like Luck, the player decides he wants something to go his way, and decides an opening happens by expending a resource. Advantage: Player agency.

Random: like Crits, when the player's natural attack roll is over under a certain number or even/odd or a specific number, an opening to use an ability happens. Advantage: the dice are impartial, and can be interpreted as simulating random elements just like 'openings.'

Reactive: like Sentinel, OAs, and the like, when the enemy hits or misses or makes a certain type of attack or otherwise sets off a 'trigger' he's 'open' to the particular technique in question. Advantage: driven by the 'fiction' in that the enemy's actions (or their result) map to the specific trigger.

Exceptional effort: like Action Surge or Second Wind, openings happen all the time, pressing one takes extra effort. Advantage: can use a simple rest-recharge mechanic.

 

[mellored]

So, if we're thinking about the idea of 'openings' or 'tactical opportunities' there's any number of ways to go about it mechanically.

Proactive: like TWFing or Deft Action, the player uses his Bonus action to /make/ an opening. Advantage: keeps the action in-character.

DM mediated: like Inspiration, when the DM decides the player's actions in combat are in alignment with his concept and deserve a bonus, he declares an opening, allowing an ability to be used. Advantage: DM Empowering, natch.

Player resource: like Luck, the player decides he wants something to go his way, and decides an opening happens by expending a resource. Advantage: Player agency.

Random: like Crits, when the player's natural attack roll is over under a certain number or even/odd or a specific number, an opening to use an ability happens. Advantage: the dice are impartial, and can be interpreted as simulating random elements just like 'openings.'

Reactive: like Sentinel, OAs, and the like, when the enemy hits or misses or makes a certain type of attack or otherwise sets off a 'trigger' he's 'open' to the particular technique in question. Advantage: driven by the 'fiction' in that the enemy's actions (or their result) map to the specific trigger.

Exceptional effort: like Action Surge or Second Wind, openings happen all the time, pressing one takes extra effort. Advantage: can use a simple rest-recharge mechanic.

IMO
I feel proactive, random, and reactive are 3 good ways.

DM mediation seems like something that should be left to the player, not the class. Putting a bucket of glue on the dragons head or whatever. Even if the 8 int barbarian thinks of it, it's fun so should be allowed.
Player resources / exceptional effort still feel like spells.

 

[Tony Vargas]

IMO
I feel proactive, random, and reactive are 3 good ways.
...
Player resources / exceptional effort still feel like spells.

Something has to do something supernatural (or, at least, through supernatural agency) /and/ require arcane gestures, strange languages/extemporaneous poetry a'la Dr. Strange, and/or 'eye of newt' or the like, to pass for a spell in my (npi)book.

Full Disclosure: I presented 'random' because it seemed like the right thing to do, but personally, having played a 13A fighter that kinda works that way, I absolutely /hate/ it. Player agency: nil. Reason to sit there doing something an 80s video-game AI could do: nil.
I also saw a 13A playtester rave about having the exact same experience with a fighter. So, y'know, each to his own. I just feel like, we have enough of that in the existing options. (It might well be a cool enhancement for the Champion, for instance).

DM mediation seems like something that should be left to the player, not the class.

I don't hate the idea as much as random, but I thought I'd throw it in there because it seemed like Inspiration was a precedent.

 

[Lanliss]

Something has to do something supernatural (or, at least, through supernatural agency) /and/ require arcane gestures, strange languages/extemporaneous poetry a'la Dr. Strange, and/or 'eye of newt' or the like, to pass for a spell in my (npi)book.

Full Disclosure: I presented 'random' because it seemed like the right thing to do, but personally, having played a 13A fighter that kinda works that way, I absolutely /hate/ it. Player agency: nil. Reason to sit there doing something an 80s video-game AI could do: nil.
I also saw a 13A playtester rave about having the exact same experience with a fighter. So, y'know, each to his own. I just feel like, we have enough of that in the existing options. (It might well be a cool enhancement for the Champion, for instance).

I don't hate the idea as much as random, but I thought I'd throw it in there because it seemed like Inspiration was a precedent.

I think that a limited number of points works fine, and is no more abstract than HP. HP represents an ambiguous mix of Skill, Luck, and health, while this resource (Ki, Tactic points, Superiority dice, whatever it is) represents an ambiguous mix of luck (how often your enemies give an opening that you recognize) and reaction speed (how quickly you can recognize, and capitalize, on that opening.) For this reason, I would be happy with a limited resource, as it can be balanced best to skirt the line of "Always, all the time" and "gets better with training."

 

[mellored]

Full Disclosure: I presented 'random' because it seemed like the right thing to do, but personally, having played a 13A fighter that kinda works that way, I absolutely /hate/ it. playtester rave about having the exact same experience with a fighter. So, y'know, each to his own. I just feel like, we have enough of that in the existing options. (It might well be a cool enhancement for the Champion, for instance).

II wasn't suggesting it as the only option, but an "opportunist" specialty or sub-class would work.

I'm still working under the assumption that this is a modular class, where you can pick options. So you can skip that one, and others can take it.

 

[Garthanos]

Hate random... all the rest are fine.
AND like [MENTION=6801209]mellored[/MENTION] said I agree the DM mediated is improvised actions player and dm modded and maybe vaguely character related at most not a class or anything resource.

I do really like reactive but making situations common enough and interesting is a real balancing act

 

[Tony Vargas]

like [MENTION=6801209]mellored[/MENTION] said I agree the DM mediated is improvised actions player and dm modded and maybe vaguely character related at most not a class or anything resource.

Sure, my thought was that it would build on that. When you improv an action, you improv an action like anyone else - but when you improv one that's well-aligned with your concept & the class feature in question, the DM rewards you by unlocking an ability that makes it better.