D&D 5E Quantifying AOE impact

[FrogReaver]

Only if it does the killing damage. But that's the best case for it. If we are assuming it is used in the first round to soften up a bunch of enemies and kill none, then it has no overkill.

But in reality you don't have control over whether it's used in the first round. Sometimes it will be, sometimes it won't be. Heck, sometimes you may even use an AOE on round 1 and round 2.

I don't think looking at efficiencies of single targeting damage splitting adds anything important to the discussion of AOE's. We can achieve the same results by looking at a case of N, 2N and 4N, 4.1N, 4.1N enemy Hps.

Or more precisely, the cases we are looking at are more likely to be fireball does N, party does 2.17N, enemies have 3.56N Hp. That we started out looking at an example where we needed precisely 100% of damage carryover efficiency to the next enemy is going to be a rare circumstance - so we shouldn't consider that the rule - and in the vast majority of cases, due to damage variability, to hit variability, multiple attacks, there is going to be a miniscule difference in actual impact between the 100% carryover damage efficiency case and the slightly below 100% carryover damage efficiency case.

 

[dave2008]

methinks you are having a very off day. DPR always takes into account hit rate

Maybe in circles that care, but I typical don't take that into account when I am thinking about it casually

 

[Esker]

Maybe in circles that care, but I typical don't take that into account when I am thinking about it casually

Haha, that's an amazing retort. "This thing means A!" "No, it means B!" "Maybe to people who care! But to those of us who are apathetic, it means A!"

 

[FrogReaver]

Haha, that's an amazing retort. "This thing means A!" "No, it means B!" "Maybe to people who care! But to those of us who are apathetic, it means A!"

@dave2008 would make an excellent politician!

 

[Zardnaar]

Probably slightly more than a 50% flunk rate.

Average Dex save is 1.8 iirc in the MM.

If your int is higher than 16 or your proficiency bonus is higher than +2 your probably gonna have it stick more than 50%.

For example at level 9 spell DC can be around 17. At an average of +2 saves will fail 70% of the time.

18 caster stat lvl 5 saves are failed 60% of the time.

 

[dave2008]

Haha, that's an amazing retort. "This thing means A!" "No, it means B!" "Maybe to people who care! But to those of us who are apathetic, it means A!"

To be clear, I just meant "...to me." I don't typically run in circles of char op where discussions of DPR matter so I was unfamiliar with the idea that you assumed the hit rate.

 

[dave2008]

@dave2008 would make an excellent politician!

Alas, I'm not so good at public speaking.

 

[CleverNickName]

The damage is dependent on the number of creatures that make their save.

Let X = (creature Dex save bonus) - (spell save DC - 10):

X	DPR
-4	23.8
-3	23.1
-2	22.4
-1	21.7
0	21.0
1	20.3
2	19.6
3	18.9
4	18.2

So if you're slinging fireballs with a save DC of 14, and the creatures you are targeting have a Dex save bonus of +2, you can expect the fireball spell to deal 19.6 damage each round on average.

 

[FrogReaver]

The damage is dependent on the number of creatures that make their save.

Let X = (creature Dex save bonus) - (spell save DC - 10):

X	DPR
-4	23.8
-3	23.1
-2	22.4
-1	21.7
0	21.0
1	20.3
2	19.6
3	18.9
4	18.2

So if you're slinging fireballs with a save DC of 14, and the creatures you are targeting have a Dex save bonus of +2, you can expect the fireball spell to deal 19.6 damage each round on average.

A creature with a save bonus of +3 would pass 50% of the time. That is your 21 damage case.

I'm not sure how you managed to get the chart off that far. But more importantly, we are aiming for more grandiose things than calculating fireball DPR.

 

[FrogReaver]

Alas, I'm not so good at pubic speaking.

And you think the ones we have now are good at that?????

LOL