D&D 5E Should 5e have more classes (Poll and Discussion)?

[Minigiant]

I'm now tempted to try it. (But I probably won't as I'm too lazy and I have no use for it.) I really don't see it as big hurdle though. Eldritch Knight is already very paladinesque fighter variant and they work just fine.

The EK's magic is kinda trash though.
This is attempting to layer one of the top 3 strongest classes in 5e on top of the fighter.

It's gonna be overpowered as nine hells or require stripping out all the parts that make it feel like a paladin.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm saying the paladin subclass for the fighter would be a failure. Many of the parts for it would exist but creation of the smites and putting it on a fighter base would be a complete disaster. I'd pity the design who tries.

The problem isn't making the paladin, it's destroying the fighter to do it.

yep. We could overhaul the fighter class to allow enough space for paladin. But at that point you have to Redesign the fighter and all it’s subclasses.

 

[FrogReaver]

I’m still amazed anyone reads the OP and the pool and thinks this thread is about a total Redesign of 5e classes/subclasses

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The EK's magic is kinda trash though.
This is attempting to layer one of the top 3 strongest classes in 5e on top of the fighter.

It's gonna be overpowered as nine hells or require stripping out all the parts that make it feel like a paladin.

I'm pretty sure that we disagree on what makes it 'feel like a paladin.'


But as a super quick mock up of Paladin subclass for the fighter:

Level 3: Divine Smite (this is toned down as they have less spells, could be easily toned down more by decreasing the damage die.) + Channel Divinity (different ones to choose from)

Level 7: Aura of Protection (You could make this so that there are several auras to choose from. Like you could pick Aura of Warding or Devotion instead.)

Level 10: Aura of Courage

Level 15: Improved Divine Smite (this is a bit boring and possibly OP. There could be couple of oath abilities to choose from here instead.)

Level 18: Cleansing Touch. (THis is decent. But we again could have oath abilities to choose from instead.)

1/3 spellcaster with (perhaps limited) access to cleric spells. Casts with wis because that's how divine magic should work and judgemental arses do not need to be likeable.

---

Something like that should work. This of course was from the top of my head written in three minutes, so it probably has issues but you get the general idea. I'd build it like the totem barbarian, so that instead of having just one feature per level that gives features, you get to choose from several. That way you can build more reflect different oaths.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I’m still amazed anyone reads the OP and the pool and thinks this thread is about a total Redesign of 5e classes/subclasses

How could it not be if we are talking about removing classes? The only time such a thing would be relevant if there was an updated version of the PHB or a completely new edition of the game. It's not like WotC would send out people to rip out the paladin and sorcerer pages from your existing PHB.

 

[AliasBot]

I’m still amazed anyone reads the OP and the pool and thinks this thread is about a total Redesign of 5e classes/subclasses

I suspect a lot of it has to do with "we currently have too many classes" being included as an option on the poll. Every other way the topic is phrased in the OP treats it as purely additive: either the number of classes should stay the same, or the number of classes should increase. But as you've pointed out, the notion of removing or merging existing classes doesn't fit with that topic, so people see that option in the poll and assume the topic is more wide-reaching than it actually is.

(Another part of it is people jumping at the chance to talk about a pet issue that's at least tangential to the topic, even though they know it's not strictly on-topic. The rest is probably just poor reading comprehension.)

 

[Minigiant]

I’m still amazed anyone reads the OP and the pool and thinks this thread is about a total Redesign of 5e classes/subclasses

I'm not.
There is a significant percentage of the community who just wants to roleplay all mechanical differences. And there is a significant percentage of the community who can't think of new ideas for classes. 1+1 =

But as a super quick mock up of Paladin subclass for the fighter:

Level 3: Divine Smite (this is toned down as they have less spells, could be easily toned down more by decreasing the damage die.) + Channel Divinity (different ones to choose from)

Are you actually pondering giving the fighter who already has Action Surge Divine Smite and 1/3 spellcasting? At level 3?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Are you actually pondering giving the fighter who already has Action Surge Divine Smite and 1/3 spellcasting? At level 3?

Yes, though that certainly is a part I was apprehensive about. I really don't care about divine smite and wouldn't mind if it just didn't exist, but it probably is one of those paladin identity things for some people. But if I were seriously contemplating using this in a game it would of course require some mathammering. Note that as 1/3 caster instead of 1/2 caster they have less spells slots to burn for smiting and they are of lower level. And of course downgrading the damage die is easy, it can be d6 or d4 or/and it can be just one die per level instead of on+level. So downgrading the damage is not hard. Now, it is questionable if a mechanic that allows character to just burn their spell slots for boring extra damage instead of dong something more interesting with them is a good idea to begin with, but that applies to the original paladin as well. And yeah, on second though improved divine smite shouldn't definitely exist so it can just be a choice of an oath feature there. As I said, it was a tree minute draft.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

And here is the problem. Booming Blade is a spell not in the PHB. If there was no paladin in the PHB, you could not replicate its playstyle with just the fighter or cleric. You'd have to add to the game to cobble together something.

Why not use the actual smite spells that are in the PHB?

 

[FrogReaver]

How could it not be if we are talking about removing classes? The only time such a thing would be relevant if there was an updated version of the PHB or a completely new edition of the game. It's not like WotC would send out people to rip out the paladin and sorcerer pages from your existing PHB.

Classes are easy to remove. All it takes is some scissors and determination and you can remove any class from the PHB you want. Nothing else necessary. Especially no need to redesign them as subclasses. Flat out removing classes vs redesigning some into subclasses are 2 different things.