D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

[Blue]

Which is why I wrote:

IME, the class is OP and banned from my games for this reason and others.

So, that's that.

I can respect not wanting to get into your reasons why it's OP. However, you came to a thread where they are saying that the class is weak - can you help address some of Zardnaar's points? Maybe pointing out places he hasn't considered?

 

[Blue]

No Warlocks, Monks and only the one Fighter (and it's one of the few that relies on long rest resources in spell slots).

The classes are all long rest dependent.

Strongly suggests to me that you're letting them nova, or alternatively you're requiring it by throwing Deadly+ encounters at them.

He's already established he's running between 1-6 encounters per long rest. So at 6th that's nova-ing some of the time, but even on the days they don't the casters aren't having to rely heavily on cantrips so they will be heavier damage (/greater effect) per action then when you average in increased cantrip use of more encounters. With four pure casters plus a paladin as the others, that does explain some of it.

 

[Zardnaar]

SIX uncommon permanent items is well above what a 6th elvel party should have according to Xanathar's. Xanathar's says they should only have eight (7 uncommon, 1 rare) by the time they finish 10th level. You've been generous, ot cheap. But not extravagant ... unless those items also are tuned for the characters - a weapon or armor of the right type for the paladin, etc. If you've been generous in number of items and also given out the best choice items, then the Artificer's ability to give out items for the party will seem lackluster in comparison, as opposed to how powerful it actually is.

So if your six items are things like a Trident of Fish Command, Chainmail +1, an Alchemy Jug, a Bag of Holding and the like - then you're just generous but it's likely not having much of an effect on the utility of what the Artificer gives out. If you're both generous in numebr AND giving out items on their most wanted list, then it really will make the Artificer's ability to not make as much of a difference to the party.

There's gauntlets of ogre power the divine soul doesn't use, cloak of protection, a magical charisma amulet that can cast enhance ability (cha), whatever the Artificer has created and maybe a couple of +1 items.

 

[Zardnaar]

He's already established he's running between 1-6 encounters per long rest. So at 6th that's nova-ing some of the time, but even on the days they don't the casters aren't having to rely heavily on cantrips so they will be heavier damage (/greater effect) per action then when you average in increased cantrip use of more encounters. With four pure casters plus a paladin as the others, that does explain some of it.

Most recent was 6 encounters, RP heavy sessions before that with 0-1 encounters mostly ones they picked/provoked.

Light cleric was a new pick up, Paladin also joined few sessions back before that it was There is No Honor from Dungeon Savage tide level 1-3 and some piracy/exploration.

Paladin, EK, Artificer all sword and board.

 

[Flamestrike]

Most recent was 6 encounters, RP heavy sessions before that with 0-1 encounters mostly ones they picked/provoked.

So there has been bascially one longish adventuring day, with the rest single encounter adventuring days?

 

[Zardnaar]

So there has been bascially one longish adventuring day, with the rest single encounter adventuring days?

For about a month it was mostly social. Think they had one encounter in 3 sessions.

It was more before that but the group was smaller. Think Paladin player turned up towards the end of last combat heavy location (swamp exploration, black dragon etc). Think that was 6 fights iirc.

 

[Flamestrike]

Think Paladin player turned up towards the end of last combat heavy location (swamp exploration, black dragon etc). Think that was 6 fights iirc.

The Paladin has (presuming zero spellcasting) 6 spell slots, or enough for 1 per encounter.

How exactly was he out damaging the Artificer?

 

[Zardnaar]

The Paladin has (presuming zero spellcasting) 6 spell slots, or enough for 1 per encounter.

How exactly was he out damaging the Artificer?

Better built character, higher stats, players a bit better skill wise and the situation eg tactical use of misty step.

Misty step plus smites vs Spellcasters very useful.

Blew some saves vs chain lightning etc and went down as well.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Better built character, higher stats, players a bit better skill wise and the situation eg tactical use of misty step.

Misty step plus smites vs Spellcasters very useful.

Blew some saves vs chain lightning etc and went down as well.

There is your answer then. Player skill and plain luck matter far more than class design when it comes to "balance".

NB, Sword and board battlesmith is probably going to outdo paladin defensively rather than offensively - estimated AC 21 vs 20, with shield spell and an extra sack of hp in the Steel Defender in reserve. That's assuming they don't use their infusions to better kit out the paladin, which is perfectly valid.

If they wanted to win offensively, they would be better with a repeating heavy crossbow (or musket if available).

Repeating hand crossbow/pistol and shield is a middle option.

 

[Flamestrike]

Better built character, higher stats, players a bit better skill wise and the situation eg tactical use of misty step.

Misty step plus smites vs Spellcasters very useful.

What?

Misty step uses one of his 2 x 2nd level slots (taking away a smite). He only has 2 x 2nds for those 6 encounters (and 4 x 1sts).

Im struggling to see how he outshines the Artificer over 6 encounters, barring you not keeping a close eye on his resource expenditure as DM.

Blew some saves vs chain lightning etc and went down as well.

What was casting Chain Lighting vs 6th level PCs?

It deals (on average) 45 damage to every single PC (barring a successful Dex save, which is unlikely for many PCs of that level vs the likely save DC of 15 or so) likely resulting in a TPK.