Falcon and winter solider

[Umbran]

The mind stone is not inherently evil or unstable. Vision's soul comes from the mind stone and he was neither.

"Soul," is a pretty fraught word. His animus comes from the Stone, Stark/Ultron, and Mjollnir.

It should have come as no surprise that Vision could lift the hammer, when he was activated in part by a magical force that is dedicated primarily to worthiness to wield power.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I want to point out a line spoken by Ayo in episode 4:

The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Mileje find themselves to be.

No one seems to have even blinked an eye at this, while if anyone else in the show had said this about themselves or their organization, there would be a big uproar. Imagine if Walker had said that about himself or the GRC. I think this also ties into the overall theme of bias and racism that has happened so far. Some Wakandans do tend to look down on the rest of the world, and the other races, and think themselves superior. This kind of disrespect for the outside world and the laws that are not their own makes them just a mirror image of other supremacist groups. The only thing they may not have in common is the hate. And you can bet that if Ayo kills Zemo in a fight, or murders him as he is trying to surrender again, that she would never let herself be arrested by the local authorities.

 

[MarkB]

I want to point out a line spoken by Ayo in episode 4:



No one seems to have even blinked an eye at this, while if anyone else in the show had said this about themselves or their organization, there would be a big uproar. Imagine if Walker had said that about himself or the GRC. I think this also ties into the overall theme of bias and racism that has happened so far. Some Wakandans do tend to look down on the rest of the world, and the other races, and think themselves superior. This kind of disrespect for the outside world and the laws that are not their own makes them just a mirror image of other supremacist groups. The only thing they may not have in common is the hate. And you can bet that if Ayo kills Zemo in a fight, or murders him as he is trying to surrender again, that she would never let herself be arrested by the local authorities.

Except that, when King T'Challa led a Dora Milaje operation to take down the criminal Ulysses Klaue during an illegal Vibranium sale, that operation ended in exactly that situation. Klaue surrendered in a crowded square surrounded by witnesses with cameras. And T'Challa backed down and allowed Klaue to be taken into UN custody.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Except that, when King T'Challa led a Dora Milaje operation to take down the criminal Ulysses Klaue during an illegal Vibranium sale, that operation ended in exactly that situation. Klaue surrendered in a crowded square surrounded by witnesses with cameras. And T'Challa backed down and allowed Klaue to be taken into UN custody.

I think this illustrates an important distinction. The DM aren’t a supremacist group, they’re more like the CIA during the Cold War. They just don’t care about any authority but their own.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I want to point out a line spoken by Ayo in episode 4:



No one seems to have even blinked an eye at this, while if anyone else in the show had said this about themselves or their organization, there would be a big uproar. Imagine if Walker had said that about himself or the GRC. I think this also ties into the overall theme of bias and racism that has happened so far. Some Wakandans do tend to look down on the rest of the world, and the other races, and think themselves superior. This kind of disrespect for the outside world and the laws that are not their own makes them just a mirror image of other supremacist groups. The only thing they may not have in common is the hate. And you can bet that if Ayo kills Zemo in a fight, or murders him as he is trying to surrender again, that she would never let herself be arrested by the local authorities.

Are you seriously doing the "reverse racism" thing with the Wakandans here?

When it was T'Challa who clearly at the end of CA: Civil War not only stops Zemo from committing suicide but also turns Zemo BACK over to the authorities?

When in BLACK PANTHER when T'Challa wanted to kill Klaw he was stopped by Okoye and Nakia and AGAIN handed over to international authority led, in this case, by Everett K Ross?

Where in the dialog in ANY of these movies or series have the Wakandans looked down on anyone because of race? Go ahead. I'll WAIT.

Their bias is/was against the OUTSIDE WORLD period. They had no use for ANYONE outside of their own which was a major crux of the conflict in BLACK PANTHER. Killmonger calls them out on this at least twice in that movie and he's not white last time I checked.

And Walker? He didnt HAVE TO say that same thing. HE WAS ALREADY DOING IT.

Ayo would never kill Zemo in a fight because she's probably under orders to either return Zemo to his cell or to bring him to Wakanda to stand trial for the murder of their king.

Nice try attempting to paint Wakandans as racist though. If you'd said protectionist I'd have WHOLEHEARTEDLY agreed with you. As that is the only thing that kept them from being enslaved with most of their African brethren on the continent. But some thing tells me you're not ready to talk about that.

 

[Staffan]

Tony made one of the classic blunders - like getting into a land war in Asia, and going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line: assuming that peace comes through superior firepower.

Yeah, that's been Tony's belief from the get-go. In Iron Man 1, it's "I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once." In Iron Man 2, it's "I privatized world peace!"

Peace will only come from cooperation and understanding. Force is sometimes necessary to prevent and repel force, but that is an unstable situation unless you go so far as to exterminate the other side.

He’s also the Jarvis personality. The fact that Tony made Jarvis (presumably) means he has the capacity to make a good AI. But Jarvis was made at a time when Tony wasn‘t suffering from the PTSD he developed and paranoia about being invaded from space. Nor was Jarvis made with the grandiose scope he planned for Ultron. Ultron is a massive project Tony was no longer in a frame of mind to complete safely or successfully.

Yeah, Jarvis can do tactics and operation, but not strategy.

Except that, when King T'Challa led a Dora Milaje operation to take down the criminal Ulysses Klaue during an illegal Vibranium sale, that operation ended in exactly that situation. Klaue surrendered in a crowded square surrounded by witnesses with cameras. And T'Challa backed down and allowed Klaue to be taken into UN custody.

This was before Wakanda revealed their might to the outside world, so it was not so much "We respect their jurisdiction over this matter" as "This would be a PR disaster." In contrast, the Dora Milaje we see in F&WS are acting out of the public eye, and thus feel entitled to act entirely in their own interests in apprehending the assassin responsible for their former king's death.

 

[MarkB]

This was before Wakanda revealed their might to the outside world, so it was not so much "We respect their jurisdiction over this matter" as "This would be a PR disaster." In contrast, the Dora Milaje we see in F&WS are acting out of the public eye, and thus feel entitled to act entirely in their own interests in apprehending the assassin responsible for their former king's death.

Except for the part where they don't just go ahead and grab him, but instead give Bucky and Sam additional time to continue using him in their investigation.

 

[Zaukrie]

No, it isn't "clearly" wrong.

Zemo had his family killed by the actions of superheroes. Superheroes created a monster, and then countless people were hurt before they could stop it. That is something a rational person can look at and say, "Yeah, superheroes are a bad idea."

A rational person can also say that superheroes are a good idea, as they were required to save half the people in the universe... but that point is weakened by how poorly the world is managing their return, such that the return is not an unalloyed good.

Other worlds may be doing better, and the fact one world isn't has no bearing on the good act of saving half the universe.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Other worlds may be doing better, and the fact one world isn't has no bearing on the good act of saving half the universe.

Not only that, it is obviously good that half the population isn’t dead. To suggest otherwise is...beyond belief.

It would be even better if they’d prevented the blip, but it would also be even worse if they hadn’t reversed it.

 

[tomBitonti]

Other worlds may be doing better, and the fact one world isn't has no bearing on the good act of saving half the universe.

It is curios that the MCU is continuing to build ambiguity into the blip. Less nationalism and more cooperation during the blip vs the apparent return to nationalism and displacement camps after. And the appearance of the apparently badly functioning Global Repatriation Council.
TomB