Wheel of Time Discussion - Spoilers(with book spoilers)

[payn]

Whats up with the white cloak way of light faction? I mean, its clear they dont like the magic using women, at all. Though, where does their territory exist? I mean, the tower is where the mage women live right? The white cloaks can just camp outside the city?

 

[Ovinomancer]

Whats up with the white cloak way of light faction? I mean, its clear they dont like the magic using women, at all. Though, where does their territory exist? I mean, the tower is where the mage women live right? The white cloaks can just camp outside the city?

According to the books, Whitecloaks are based in the kingdom of Amadicia, where they rule in all but name. The Children, however, come from everywhere and are sent everywhere. In the books, when the Whitecloaks are camped outside of Tar Valon at this point in the story, they're not breaking any laws and are just, in general, being nuisances. The way they operate is to encourage others to name people darkfriend so the Children have cause to hang/burn/kill them. There's little protection under law for citizens in any country, and being a darkfriend is a capital offense everywhere, so the Children are able to operate as essentially mostly-legal vigilantes. Plus, they're capable soliders, well drilled, trained, and equipped. So, as long as they're staying within the lines, most countries will not deal with the problems of evicting the Children. Of course, if the Children think they can get away with it, they'd gladly kill some more Tar Valon witches and hide the bodies.

What's missed in the moustache twirling villainy of the show Children is that many normal people have a positive view of the Children. They root out dangerous criminals, and preach a good line. Its why they have so many numbers because they can recruit well anywhere they go. So there would be substantial political capital spent in evicting or barring the Children. Plus, doing so means that the Children are almost guaranteed to name that ruler darkfriend or say that they are aiding darkfriends. Why else turn from the Children of the Light? This increases the double-edged sword for most rulers. That and the Children, being a militant organization, can actually cause significant problems if a force is massed and sent back into the country to root out that corruption. They are an army.

Tar Valon has the additional problem of everyone hating them for the most part. Aes Sedai are not well liked by most. The Children do a lot of encouraging the negative stereotypes but it's not just them and the Aes Sedai themselves have earned a decent bit of the reputation honestly. If Tar Valon tries to exile the Children for anything less than an obvious bad act, then it would give the Children enough cover with the other nations to mount a full on siege of the Tower.

Not sure how much of this translates to the show, though. I stopped on ep 3. The depiction of the Children and the general level of storytelling (mostly Tell don't Show and treating the audience as if they're largely incapable of understanding nuance or complicated concepts) would lead me to believe they don't at all and it's pretty hard to reconcile how the moustache twirlers could possibly be allowed to camp inside such a powerful nation as Tar Valon.

 

[Mercurius]

After episode 5, some similar thoughts to others. The warder bit was overdone. I don't feel like we had chance enough to bond with him to give much emotional impact. It just seemed like they were dedicating the bulk of a whole episode to a tertiary character...if it is about foreshadowing, they could have done it more effectively with much less.

I also was scratching my head at a Whitecloak hanging outside Tar Valon, chopping off Aes Sedai hands. I mean, if they can just roam around and execute Aes Sedai wherever they want, what's to stop the Aes Sedai from balefiring their camp? Why is there not all-out war between the two?

Overall still very much enjoying it, but this episode stopped the curve of each episode improving and felt like a step back.

On a different note, this is the first episode where I noticed a significant divergence from the book. It has been 30 years, bud didn't Rand and Mat go to Caemlyn first, meeting Elayne there? Not a big deal, but it does imply that they're going to be shifting things around from the books.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

As a non-book reader I felt that a chunk of Rand and Mat's storyline got cut. It's almost like the episode focused on dull stuff whist the interesting stuff happened off-screen.

It's not helped that the actor playing Rand is a terrible mumbler and I have a hard time telling what he is saying. He can go in the box with Salvor Hardin as characters that should be written out of their shows.

 

[Demetrios1453]

After episode 5, some similar thoughts to others. The warder bit was overdone. I don't feel like we had chance enough to bond with him to give much emotional impact. It just seemed like they were dedicating the bulk of a whole episode to a tertiary character...if it is about foreshadowing, they could have done it more effectively with much less.

I also was scratching my head at a Whitecloak hanging outside Tar Valon, chopping off Aes Sedai hands. I mean, if they can just roam around and execute Aes Sedai wherever they want, what's to stop the Aes Sedai from balefiring their camp? Why is there not all-out war between the two?

Overall still very much enjoying it, but this episode stopped the curve of each episode improving and felt like a step back.

On a different note, this is the first episode where I noticed a significant divergence from the book. It has been 30 years, bud didn't Rand and Mat go to Caemlyn first, meeting Elayne there? Not a big deal, but it does imply that they're going to be shifting things around from the books.

Yes, they went to Caemlyn in book 1. In fact they didn't go to Tar Valon until book 2, and even then, it was just the women. They're re-arranging things to get the Aes Sedai politics off to a running start, as well as not having to create another whole major city and introduce (and pay for) several major characters who would only appear in a single 5 - 10 minute scene and then not be shown again until the next season. They did say the Amerlyn was returning from Caemlyn, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get Elayne, Elaida, and so on name-dropped when she returns. We know Elayne has been cast for Season 2, and there's a woman who has been cast for Season 2 as well who the heaving betting is on being Elaida.

Also, the Whitecloaks do set up camp right outside of Tar Valon in the books. They follow Elayne's escort from Caemlyn to Tar Valon, and just stay there. It causes some situations in Book 3.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Whats up with the white cloak way of light faction? I mean, its clear they dont like the magic using women, at all. Though, where does their territory exist? I mean, the tower is where the mage women live right? The white cloaks can just camp outside the city?

They technically don't have a territory. They're sort of like the medieval monastic orders like the Knights Templar, with chapter houses all over, but not actually owning a sovereign state. They basically do run one country through a puppet king, but they, again, technically do not rule that country, but just have heavy influence in it.

 

[TheSword]

Don’t forget an Aes Sedai can only use the power to kill in defense of their own life. So an Aes Sedai has to physically put herself in danger to be able to attack the Children with the power. Which is probably not on their high priority.

I seem to remember the children more being nuisances and demagogues rather than being particularly effective at killing Aes Sedai. Lurking around the edges and picking on the weak. It’s strongly implied in the books that if Children ever had to face a real Aes Sedai they would be in a lot of trouble. There’s a great scene in the book where they try to stop Moiraine outside Baerlon and she uses illusions to grow to the size of a giant and send them running.

That said they would pose a threat to someone like Egwene… associated with the power but not trained to use it.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

At first I was annoyed by skipping Camelyn and moving everything to Tar Valon, but after considering what moves in the plot as a result I can see the change making sense. I don't recall the Inquisitor in the book being quite as mustache-twisting evil nor having killed Aes Sedai, but I guess they really wanted to set up the conflict with Perrin.

They've only got three episodes left to get to the Eye of the World and complete the first novel, so things need to move a bit briskly.

I was amused by how thick the Tales of Jeyne Farstrider book was, for some reason.

 

[Ovinomancer]

After episode 5, some similar thoughts to others. The warder bit was overdone. I don't feel like we had chance enough to bond with him to give much emotional impact. It just seemed like they were dedicating the bulk of a whole episode to a tertiary character...if it is about foreshadowing, they could have done it more effectively with much less.

I also was scratching my head at a Whitecloak hanging outside Tar Valon, chopping off Aes Sedai hands. I mean, if they can just roam around and execute Aes Sedai wherever they want, what's to stop the Aes Sedai from balefiring their camp? Why is there not all-out war between the two?

The three oaths, for one, and the fact that Tar Valon does not have a standing army and probably wouldn't be permitted one by the other nations. The Aes Sedai operate politically, not militarily. Having an army would be seen as trying to sidestep the Oaths and force compliance on others. The trust in the oaths is already weak, and most commoners don't even know about them and think Aes Sedai can channel at the all they want. The Children of the Light, however, are keenly aware of the Oaths.

Overall still very much enjoying it, but this episode stopped the curve of each episode improving and felt like a step back.

On a different note, this is the first episode where I noticed a significant divergence from the book. It has been 30 years, bud didn't Rand and Mat go to Caemlyn first, meeting Elayne there? Not a big deal, but it does imply that they're going to be shifting things around from the books.

Elayne is cast for season 2.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Don’t forget an Aes Sedai can only use the power to kill in defense of their own life. So an Aes Sedai has to physically put herself in danger to be able to attack the Children with the power. Which is probably not on their high priority.

I seem to remember the children more being nuisances and demagogues rather than being particularly effective at killing Aes Sedai. Lurking around the edges and picking on the weak. It’s strongly implied in the books that if Children ever had to face a real Aes Sedai they would be in a lot of trouble. There’s a great scene in the book where they try to stop Moiraine outside Baerlon and she uses illusions to grow to the size of a giant and send them running.

That said they would pose a threat to someone like Egwene… associated with the power but not trained to use it.

Actually, in the books there are often cautions to Aes Sedai and the women to be very careful of the Children because they are very good at laying ambushes and a single arrow from hiding is all it takes, Aes Sedai or no. Morraine tries hard to avoid them, and every interaction with Children, even by Elayne and Nynaeve when they can channel well and are not bound by the Oaths is fraught because even a woman channeling is not immune. Against an channeler, you can bet that the Children will scatter and start firing arrows from as many directions as they can and you can't block an arrow you never see, even with the power. It doesn't provide increased awareness so that you can just feel arrows coming at you.

Now, a well trained channeler like one of the Forsaken might indeed be more than a match, but current Aes Sedai are a pale shadow of what they once were.