D&D 5E Toward a new D&D aesthetics

[Guest 7034872]

The more I think about it, I do think there is a gendered component to this discussion, in so far as certain colors or even themes get coded as "masculine" or "feminine" in the west. This isn't about what aesthetics people actually prefer, but more about how we might unconsciously read images in a particular way based on our upbringing and culture. This might also be at play in wotc's thinking, if not in the art direction itself than in the marketing.

That's entirely possible, especially insofar as any self-respecting game company has to look to marketing strategies. In recent years, WotC has made an explicit effort to broaden the D&D tent, and it worked. My sense, at least, is that a lot more people feel like they can see themselves and their table friends in the game, and the art has helped there.

And I mean, insofar as the goal is to broaden the tent, I can't see anything....objectionable about that. Right? That's an easy one for the "plus" column.

 

[Fifth Element]

As an American who spent several years in Europe, with a chunk of that time in Italy - I strongly, strongly suspect that's the case. To mangle an old saying: never ascribe to malice what can adequately be described by a misunderstanding.

While this is a certainly a fair comment, in this particular case a great deal of effort was expended attempting to explain the problem, but in turn the response was to attack those trying to explain it.

 

[Jahydin]

I feel a lot of these posts are really missing how the art has changed for some of us by focusing in too specifically on things.

It's like telling someone you prefer Punk Rock over Soft Rock and that confuses them because both have: singers, guitars, bass, and drums; 4/4 time signature; use the same musical scales; and similar verse - chorus - verse structure.

They wouldn't be wrong, but frustrating to the punk how they can't tell the difference!

 

[Jahydin]

Reminds me of the responses of the new Hero Quest art.

Original:

New:

For many, it's just an update. To others, like me, it's a complete abomination and eye sore, lol. Although INCREDIBLY similar, one just has that softer tone to it that I can't stand.

 

[Yaarel]

Reminds me of the responses of the new Hero Quest art.


For many, it's just an update. To others, like me, it's a complete abomination and eye sore, lol. Although INCREDIBLY similar, one just has that softer tone to it that I can't stand.

I would describe the first as more realistic (toward photorealism) and the second as more stylized (toward caricature).

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

Might I suggest that you might get less negative reactions if you refrain from comparing those that disagree with you to eight year olds? May not have been your intent, but that's what you are saying here.

Considering how much pushback the whole "Disneyfication" bit has gotten, doubling down by then stating that liking this palette is because it appeals to an 8 year old isn't particularly productive.

I do not compare anything. I've sad that those illustration style make ME think about my daughter. I find it childish and this is a personal feeling. If it is offensive I can be sorry but the thing remains the same. I'm not saying that if you like it you are as a child.

 

[Hussar]

I do not compare anything. I've sad that those illustration style make ME think about my daughter. I find it childish and this is a personal feeling. If it is offensive I can be sorry but the thing remains the same. I'm not saying that if you like it you are as a child.

Let me rephrase then.

Is there a possible way you could talk about the art without ANY reference to maturity? Can you do that? Because saying that "Occam's Razor" leads you to believe that they chose this color scheme is because it appeals to 8 year old girls absolutely DOES mean that you are saying that you think this art is for children. Maybe that's not what you meant to say. Fair enough. I'm just saying that if you insist on comparing the art to a particular level of maturity, it's never, ever going to go well.

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

As an American who spent several years in Europe, with a chunk of that time in Italy - I strongly, strongly suspect that's the case. To mangle an old saying: never ascribe to malice what can adequately be described by a misunderstanding.

Difference in perception are real. But aside from clumsy use of english, my position is not a misunderstanding of racism issues. My position is against the tactic used to fight it. In my opinion is wrong tactic for a good strategy. I strongly believe that charging the writer for the perception of the reader is higly questionable, because the weight of proof must be on the accuser, ever.
Maybe this came off the fact that in italy we have racism for sure, but not in the proportion that appears in US. Maybe US culture prefer to sacrifice a little bit of free debate to fight more hard the racism phenomenon and I can understand this, still finding myself uncomfortable. And surely I tend to see this kind of operations, especially when associated with advertising comunications, as strongly suspectable of x-washing (where x could be green, poc friendly and so on).
What is really upsetting is semi automatic association of those ideas with racism. When this happens is a symptom of an highly polluted debate and the plastic demonstration that this kind of cultural mood leads to a poor form of democracy. If we are so worried about racists, maybe is better to let them talk to the point their sick and ridicolous ideas shows how they are stupid. The way choosen is to suffocate them at the first suspect, ending in killing some innocents and making them as pariah, reinforcing their ideas with the boost of victimism.

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

Let me rephrase then.

Is there a possible way you could talk about the art without ANY reference to maturity? Can you do that? Because saying that "Occam's Razor" leads you to believe that they chose this color scheme is because it appeals to 8 year old girls absolutely DOES mean that you are saying that you think this art is for children. Maybe that's not what you meant to say. Fair enough. I'm just saying that if you insist on comparing the art to a particular level of maturity, it's never, ever going to go well.

If i feel that something is childish, I can try to deconstruct the term splitting it into a long series of adjective and to find them I need to go to a translation site and find them in english.
It's a little bit hard now I answer you by smartphone and I'm in a car and the result will be childish again, only disguided as a series of different words. Can you consider maybe that I'm not malevolent and in no way I want to offend you or anybody using that word? It would save mine and your time.

Edit: if childish has a negative meaning in english (in italian it is quite neutral and stands for infantile) I would be glad to learn a synonim.

 

[Stefano Rinaldelli]

Mr. Rinaldelli has a habit of making statements that get him reported for pushing against if not outright breaking the forum rules about inclusivity. I suspect this is very much primarily a matter of language and of much of Europe having different POV than America on matters of marginalization and what language is ethically acceptable, not any sort of malice, but it does mean that many around here are not as willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Is that fair? I don't know, actually. I think it's complicated.

Unfortunately many mod action taken against me are highly questionable and many times has been decided to categorize as racist instead to kill the problem in the cradle, just in case. And also there is a problem with metaphores, sometimes taken to the letter. I'm trying to understand and learn to refine my communication in order to avoid those misunderstandings.

All of that adds up to easily raised hackles when the book written entirely by POC

I've simply said that this is not something that can push me to buy. On the contrary contamination would be a driver for me. It is clearly a position on an editorial operation and not against poc. It is always the same old story: prejudice can subvert the perception of the reader