D&D 5E Not Much Ado About Bless

[GMforPowergamers]

Mostly because you have to stay reeeeeeeeallly close to your Paladin to get the bonus. Like, "you're going to get hit by an AoE" close.

part of me wants to say "No big deal with +cha mod to save they will just make teh save..." then I remeber I once played a cleric with a 19 wis a ring of prot, and rolled 2 1s a 3 and a 7 on my wisdom saves and as such even though I only needed an 8 or higher was stunned for 5 turns...

 

[Mannahnin]

Most proud nail topics of 5e are those that either give a bonus out-of-line with other things (like the +10 to stealth PWT gives instead of the expected Advantage it probably should be)

Just Advantage on PWT would be pretty useless, I think. The point is to make the whole party stealthy. Even ones who are running around with a -1 Stealth modifier normally.

 

[Oofta]

I can see the spells part, but smiting doesn't factor anything about CHA into it, so higher STR (or DEX) would improve the chances of landing a hit and thus allowing you to smite more often as you choose to.

Which is another tweak I would like to see--removing smites and just having smites as spells. THEN perhaps CHA would be more of a factor.

I think another factor is how far you get to play the character. Is CHA 20 obtainable by the time you stop playing the PC? Paladins are such MAD characters, that I just don't see it often. IIRC CHA 16 is the highest I've seen a paladin get in play.

I can't think of any spell that adds bonus damage because of your charisma, although there are some that require saves to negate some effect. You may hate smite, but I went the opposite way from @Sabathius42's players and focused on strength first and rarely cast spells during combat that grant a save because I'd rather smite. I do still occasionally cast spells like zone of truth outside of combat.

If I wanted to be a holy warrior casting spells all the time I would have run a cleric.

 

[Oofta]

I've played a high charisma paladin in a game (Got up to 22 Cha with a tome by the end), but it was a specific case in that I had gotten a Belt of Giant Strength that freed up ASI's for more charisma. Probably not a great example.

That's probably a more common loophole than you may think, especially if it's relatively easy to acquire uncommon magical items like gauntlets of ogre strength. Also one of the reasons that in our home game we use the rules for items that adjust ability scores add to your existing ability instead of replacing.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

This was definitely a high magic item game. Besides the tome and belt, by the end I had a Holy Avengeresque Polearm, Ring of Jumping, Ring of Regeneration, +2 Full Plate. Had a Cloak of Displacement for awhile, but gave that over to the monk after attunement slots were filling up.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I can't think of any spell that adds bonus damage because of your charisma, although there are some that require saves to negate some effect. You may hate smite, but I went the opposite way from @Sabathius42's players and focused on strength first and rarely cast spells during combat that grant a save because I'd rather smite. I do still occasionally cast spells like zone of truth outside of combat.

If I wanted to be a holy warrior casting spells all the time I would have run a cleric.

No, your experience is what I see most of the time--focus on STR (or DEX) to attacks/damage, not CHA.

I don't "hate" smite. My biggest issue with it is that it comes after the hit has been scored. So, you don't run the risk of possibly wasting a resource, and I know that makes running the game "easier", but taking just about any aspect of resource management from the game takes away another aspect of challenge.

The worst part is the "critical smite", where the player completely unloads the biggest smite they can because they now KNOW all those dice will be doubled... Risk the smite before the attack roll, and suddenly hitting becomes more interesting again, and missing makes you groan just a bit more.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't "hate" smite. My biggest issue with it is that it comes after the hit has been scored. So, you don't run the risk of possibly wasting a resource, and I know that makes running the game "easier", but taking just about any aspect of resource management from

I don't mind the basic smite (although I would decrease it to 1d4 per spell level max 5d4) but I would have LOVED if the spell smites were spell attacks that did more damage and had riders... including damage on a miss...

in my crazy mind branding smite would be a cha attack that deals 1w+3d6 fire damage... on a miss you take 1d6+cha mod fire damage... and the branding smite effect at higher level you add+1d6 to BOTH hit and miss per spell level to a cap of 5th level for 1w+7d6 fire on a hit or 5d6+cha mod fire damage on a miss

 

[Oofta]

No, your experience is what I see most of the time--focus on STR (or DEX) to attacks/damage, not CHA.

I don't "hate" smite. My biggest issue with it is that it comes after the hit has been scored. So, you don't run the risk of possibly wasting a resource, and I know that makes running the game "easier", but taking just about any aspect of resource management from the game takes away another aspect of challenge.

The worst part is the "critical smite", where the player completely unloads the biggest smite they can because they now KNOW all those dice will be doubled... Risk the smite before the attack roll, and suddenly hitting becomes more interesting again, and missing makes you groan just a bit more.

Hey now, it's not like my paladin has levels of fighter just to take champion and double my chances of getting a crit. I liked action surge as well.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I don't mind the basic smite (although I would decrease it to 1d4 per spell level max 5d4) but I would have LOVED if the spell smites were spell attacks that did more damage and had riders... including damage on a miss...

in my crazy mind branding smite would be a cha attack that deals 1w+3d6 fire damage... on a miss you take 1d6+cha mod fire damage... and the branding smite effect at higher level you add+1d6 to BOTH hit and miss per spell level to a cap of 5th level for 1w+7d6 fire on a hit or 5d6+cha mod fire damage on a miss

There's a lot more that could be done with smites, so I agree with that!

A la Tasha's, I'd rather see smites limited to proficiency bonus uses per long rest, and make the smite spells smite-like "maneuvers" (like BM) and you pick some that are fueled by the smite feature instead of competing with spell slots.

Hey now, it's not like my paladin has levels of fighter just to take champion and double my chances of getting a crit. I liked action surge as well.

Sure you didn't...

 

[James Gasik]

If you're a Devotion Paladin, I can see a reason to want more Charisma. The action economy on Sacred Weapon is abominable, but it's a powerful buff once active.