D&D (2024) WoTc and TSR... what is D&D

[kenada]

For a lot of players in my group, “D&D” closely resembles 3e. That tends to manifest most strongly in a preference for some of the fiddly ways 3e works and how it approached customization. I have one player who got started gaming with 5e, and he cares a lot less about customization than everyone else does. I’m sure there’s some correlation between when you got started and what you played longest with what you consider quintessential D&D.

Of course, the GM (me) would rather run an OSR game, so I’m having to homebrew something that will satisfy all our preferences (or at least all of mine and most of theirs).

 

[payn]

For a lot of players in my group, “D&D” closely resembles 3e. That tends to manifest most strongly in a preference for some of the fiddly ways 3e works and how it approached customization. I have one player who got started gaming with 5e, and he cares a lot less about customization than everyone else does. I’m sure there’s some correlation between when you got started and what you played longest with what you consider quintessential D&D.

Of course, the GM (me) would rather run an OSR game, so I’m having to homebrew something that will satisfy all our preferences (or at least all of mine and most of theirs).

I have often thought that if 5E came out instead of 3E back then, I wouldn't be the customization lover that I am now. 3E/PF1 just set me up to love that style. 5E is a fine game, it just feels first gear to me. Though, it being more accessible and easier to learn clearly shows why its so popular.

 

[Micah Sweet]

in another thread we were talking about cantrips. One poster said 'prior to 3e' that wasn't true... but yeah that was 23 years ago now that anything was published by tsr for before 3e.

so I got to thinking. in 2024 we have the 50 anniversary and something is coming (is it a redone 5e, is it 5.5 is it 6e, will it just be called D&D anniversary edition? who knows) but come that day in mid august when we all come here to complain or praise or what ever this new product... it will be WotC has owned D&D as long or longer than TSR.

in another thread I was told that the half way through a edition is "in the end game of" and the two things together kinda hit my head.

so 3e, 4e, and 5e have held out as long as basic, 1e and 2e. realistically the d20 system (3e) was the BIGGEST of the changes and has stuck (I don't see THan0 and non weapons profs rolling below stats coming back anytime soon.)

so as we look to 2024 (and in theory into 2034 for the 60th) do 1e or 2e really hold much sway anymore?

I have made no bones and hid nothing, 4e was my favorite edition... but 2e and 5e are both neck and neck for second (and 2e got a big head start from rose tinted nostalgia) however we are now looking at player bases that joined in 5e, they never knew Thac0, they never knew a time when Cantrip was a spell you had to prep in a 1st level slot, and they never heard of Save Vs rod staff or wand... but most also don't remember that feats were NEW to many of us old timers. that HP used to be WAY lower...

then I thought about the people who never knew what a prestige class was... people that never saw a fighter use "come and get it" and they are still D&D fans playing right now. Going forward a VERY high amount of players and DMs never bought a TSR product... and the longer time goes on the bigger that % becomes.

what does this mean for the game I started in 94/95? I don't know. It just is something in my head so now I am forcing you to all think aboout it.

1st and 2nd ed are the heart of D&D for me. Everything I play since then has attempted to put as much of that DNA into the game as I can.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Right. The text is an iffy scan and the book is a paperback glued into a hardback. It’s good to have and reference. Sure. But I’d rather have a print copy of OSE and go from there. Way better quality text and printing.

I have an original printing. One of my favorite finds.

 

[Mercurius]

The old D&D Rules Cyclopedia was originally $24.95, or $29.04 in current money.

How do you figure? I just checked an inflation calculator, and $25 in 1991 is $49 today.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I always thought comparing DnD to video games is a flawed comparison. Video games are tied to technology. You can do things with video games today that you couldn't remotely do 40 years ago. The same isn't true of TTRPGs.

There has been advancement in design, sure, but there's nothing you can't do in an older system that you can do today. It's all about imagination, after all.

So it's much more about personal preference. That's why a much higher percentage of role players play older editions than the percentage of video gamers who still only play the Atari.

 

[Mercurius]

I see D&D as a living cultural tradition that--like other living traditions--isn't simply a linear process of progressive change - like the video game console analogy some mentioned; a clever idea, but not really accurate because D&D is closer to an artistic tradition than it is to a technology.

Each edition is still "alive" - just like jazz and funk and punk are still alive, whether through the music still being accessible* or people drawing upon older forms and either creating retro music or integrating it into a hybrid. That's the good news of postmodernism: every cultural idea of the past is ready to use as an ingredient in a new form.

(*In the era of Youtube and internet in general, there is more older music now available than there was, say, 20 years ago. As a big fan of jazz and funk from the late 60s through 70s, I am always finding gems on youtube, be they old vinyl tracks that never made it to cassette or CD, but someone converted to mp3, or live recordings, or just music I never heard in the "Age of the CD"--circa 1990ish to 2010ish--in which I got into such music).

Even if WotC takes D&D in a certain direction, that doesn't invalidate past forms. They live on through the material that is still available, but more so from those who still play it or really embrace the "true" spirit of D&D: which is to make the game your own.

 

[Stormonu]

Ah, Dragonlance. Had it not come out when it did, I probably would have stopped playing D&D and gave up on it.

As for Atari 2600, Yar's Revenge is king. Atlantis, (the sequel) Cosmic Ark, Berserk, Empire Strikes Back, Asteroids, Adventure - still fun. Swordquest, however, can die in a fire.

 

[James Gasik]

Ah, Dragonlance. Had it not come out when it did, I probably would have stopped playing D&D and gave up on it.

As for Atari 2600, Yar's Revenge is king. Atlantis, (the sequel) Cosmic Ark, Berserk, Empire Strikes Back, Asteroids, Adventure - still fun. Swordquest, however, can die in a fire.

Which Swordquest? I only played Earthworld, but I presume they were all bad. I liked the comic though.

Don't forget Adventure! and Raiders of the Lost Ark!

 

[Parmandur]

(*In the era of Youtube and internet in general, there is more older music now available than there was, say, 20 years ago. As a big fan of jazz and funk from the late 60s through 70s, I am always finding gems on youtube, be they old vinyl tracks that never made it to cassette or CD, but someone converted to mp3, or live recordings, or just music I never heard in the "Age of the CD"--circa 1990ish to 2010ish--in which I got into such music).

By that same token, I actually found quite a bit of AD&D and Basic streaming games now.