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D&D (2024) What New Classes Should Be Added One D&D PHB?

Hard disagree, because the vague lore doesn't match the mechanics or how they actually work at all.

The idea that the crafters from Lantan match up with Artificers for example is absolutely a joke (and yes I'm aware the book claims it, it's still nonsense).

If you banned the only actually-good subclass of Artificer (Armorer) and the mediocre ones (Artillerist, Battlesmith), and you only had the Alchemist subclass, then you might almost be able to make this argument, but not really because they're too weird in terms of real mechanics. Maybe on a really good day, if you squinted your eyes and basically reflavoured it, you could argue Battlesmith kinda sorta fit too. But it's not good. And Armorer and Artillerist are just a hard "no" for most settings. Basically Fantasy Iron Man and some dude with a gun turret following at his heels are just not fitting most settings.
How do Artificers not fit Lantan? It's an island of magical crafters that make guns, submarines, and magic gunpowder. And that's only one example I listed you take issue with.

Battle Smith is good. They get what basically amounts to a permanent Spiritual Weapon that can also deflect and take attacks, are a SAD "gish" character, and (with the DMs permission) can use firearms .
More subclasses as you describe would probably just give more subclasses that wouldn't fit in most settings, because the class is fundamentally problematic.
Plenty of classes have gotten subclasses in setting books tailored to suit that setting.
But that's not the only problem they have by any stretch of the imagination.

1) They're not filling in a gap for a popular missing fantasy archetype. They totally fail to fill in the gunslinger gap some settings have, because the artillerist is terrible at that, even if he makes the hand-held turret. He's at by far his most powerful just ramming THP up the entire party's bums 24-7.
Artificer-like characters are included in The Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, The Cosmere, and a lot of other popular fantasy series/games.

I agree that Artillerist is hard to justify in a lot of settings. But Battle Smiths, Alchemists, and Armorers don't have that problem. Steel Defenders can easily be pet golems, Alchemists are a staple of fantasy, and Armorers design specific magical armor. Nothing inherently "sci-fi" about any of those.
2) Their current design is an absolute disaster.

Unlike all the other 5E classes, which cluster in the like 68%-100% effective range, and stay in that cluster even with really basic/bad optimization by players, Artificers rely extremely heavily on system mastery, and indeed knowledge most players shouldn't really have and more importantly - don't have (like, a detailed understanding of all magic items). With their weird way of doing things, the difference between good spell selection and ability selection and disastrously bad is absolutely huge. And the subclasses vary insanely in power, with the Alchemist being pretty trash, and the Armorer potentially being extremely powerful if you know what you're doing.

As for system mastery, unless you pick the right spells, and the right effects and magic item effects from your infusions and so on, you're absolutely stuffed, but if you do, they can shine very brightly. They're not remotely balanced or anywhere near equal. And it's extremely complicated and absolutely full of "trap" options and mistakes you can make that will ensure you're a mediocre performer at best.

You know how some MMOs have difficulty ratings for the classes? Well, if D&D 5E had them, none would be above three stars out of five, except Artificer, which would be five out of five maximum difficulty.
They do have some trap options (just like most other classes), and their useful spells/infusions are dependent on what build you're making, but it's really not hard to use the Artificer's versatility to maximize your power. Battle Smiths just need a magic weapon infusion, Artillerists and Alchemists want the Enhanced Arcane Focus, and Armorers want Enhanced Defense. And spell selection also depends on your subclass, with Alchemists and Battle Smiths focusing more on support while Armorers and Artillerists focusing more on damaging spells.

Every spellcasting class has trap spells and other trap options. Warlocks arguably don't have it any worse than the Artificer does.
 

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Artificer-like characters are included in The Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, The Cosmere, and a lot of other popular fantasy series/games.
This is simply not true in any meaningful fashion.

You're stretching ridiculously to find deep-lore enemy NPCs, often from far in history, to justify one of the party members being Iron Man. It doesn't work. I'm unable to even think of who you're referring to re: Dragon Age though.

The same is true for a lot of the D&D settings. I only argued re: Lantan because it's so obviously bollocks. You described what Lantan artificers actually do. What they don't do is run around with magical gun-turrets or dress up as Iron Man in super-duper magic armour.

And the Battle smith pet pretty much always requires reflavouring as well, to not a bloody robot to fit into most settings without changing the tone of the setting.
Armorers design specific magical armor
Except they absolutely DO NOT.

They find an existing suit of specific magical armour and make it More Magicker. Or existing suit of armour period. There's no design, no creation.
Nothing inherently "sci-fi" about any of those.
I didn't say it was "sci-fi", did I?

I said it didn't fit. It doesn't fit because it's ultra-heavy-duty magitech, not "sci-fi". It turns Dragon's Dogma into Final Fantasy 13. That's fine if you want to run Final Fantasy 13, but if you want to run Dragon's Dogma, it doesn't work.

They do have some trap options (just like most other classes)
This is just beneath you, dude.

Many classes in 5E have basically no options, or no real trap options. A mediocre subclass is not a trap option, so that's most classes in D&D already out as not having trap options. No Divine caster has any trap options because they get all spells. So they're out too. What does that leave us, Arcane casters? Except Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards get enough spells and a good enough spell list it's almost impossible to trap yourself - and they don't have anything like Infusions or the magic-item-simulator stuff.
Warlocks arguably don't have it any worse than the Artificer does.
I would challenge you to actually argue that "arguable", because I don't think it is.

Warlocks are far more obvious - for starters all their choices are openly and obviously presented to them, which is flatly not the case for Artificers.

And to be a "good Warlock" you need two things - Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast. Boom, done, you're great. You don't need any system mastery. After that the differences are small. That is not true at all with Artificers. And certainly no other class is even arguable.
 



For me its less about what classes, and what "spheres or mechanics or flavor" are not well represented by our current list.

Take the witch for example. Frankly I think there are tons of ways to make a witch right now. A sorceror or warlock I think can make very serviceable witches, or even a circle of the land druid. Even a basic "psion" can be done with a sorc and subtle spell, though the sorc subclass that focuses on that augments it a bit more. If you want a Warlord as a "fighter that can inspire", the battle master already has inspiring manuevers, just add a few more to the list and bam your there.

So to me its really about, what are the rules dropping the ball on? What archetypes just don't have great support, because they require the rules to stretch in ways that they just don't do well right now? I mentioned the pet focused class because right now classes are all about the person, and so there is little design space to make a strong pet...its simply too OP. The solution is a new class that intentionally weakness the character, and therefore gives more space to allow for a strong pet without upsetting balance.

If you want a psion that has a completely different way to cast spells....ok now we are talking. but if its just a psion that "doesn't use components"....no reason to reinvent the wheel.

The artificer makes sense to me because crafting (especially fast and temporary crafting) doesn't have a lot of rules support right now.
 

I'm conflicted on this question the more I think about it. What should be in the PHB? I think generally the list we have now works. I'd even say still keep the artificer out to keep things to only the most broadly applicable class archetypes.

But man oh man do I want them to be more liberal with adding more classes to the game over time. One of the things that's great about the better 3PP classes (like Mage Hand Press' Gunslinger, Witch, Necromancer, Gadgeteer, etc.) is that they have so much embedded flavor in the way they handle the world around them. They have mechanics enforcing their themes all over the place. Subclasses, especially as they've been designed so far, often feel like they don't do enough to differentiate the play experience. There are some outliers, of course, but how much cooler would Echo Knight have been as a fully developed class? How much less cool would Matt Mercer's Blood Hunter have been if it was just a Ranger subclass?
 

A good one I think is a priest class, aka a non-martial more spellcaster focused cleric. While the warlock chassis could be serviceable here, the warlock invocations are generally too "darkly themed" to serve the more relgious clerical flavor to me.

the other option here is to just push the cleric to a spellcaster core, and strip away a lot of the martial pieces....leaving the paladin as the true martial "cleric" (I think the two classes have always had too much overlap anyway. The cleric should be the heart of the faith, the paladin the fist).
 

This is simply not true in any meaningful fashion.

You're stretching ridiculously to find deep-lore enemy NPCs, often from far in history, to justify one of the party members being Iron Man. It doesn't work. I'm unable to even think of who you're referring to re: Dragon Age though.
Rune-carving dwarves is what I'm referring to from Dragon Age. Specifically, Sandal Feddic, who uses Lyrium to carve magical runes into mundane objects that (off screen) allows him to kill a lot of enemies, and he can enchant the main character's armors/weapons

Artifabrians in the Cosmere use tuning forks, specific metals, stormlight, and gems to trap magical creatures (similar to elementals and fey) in devices that can harness their magical energy and produce a variety of effects (which may or may not be connected to the Surges). That's a pretty similar concept to D&D Artificers, which use objects to tap into the Weave and cast "spells" and make magic items.
The same is true for a lot of the D&D settings. I only argued re: Lantan because it's so obviously bollocks. You described what Lantan artificers actually do. What they don't do is run around with magical gun-turrets or dress up as Iron Man in super-duper magic armour.

And the Battle smith pet pretty much always requires reflavouring as well, to not a bloody robot to fit into most settings without changing the tone of the setting.
Nimblewrights and guns come from Lantan. A Lantan Battle Smith with a gun that has a Steel Defender that looks like a Nimblewright would fit in the Forgotten Realms. Or if they reflavored their blasting spells as Smokepowder, an Artillerist could fit.
Except they absolutely DO NOT.

They find an existing suit of specific magical armour and make it More Magicker. Or existing suit of armour period. There's no design, no creation.
"Design" is flavoring the mechanics of the class/subclass, which is explicitly encouraged in the class. The Armorer has different "models" of their Arcane Armor that they can customize with infusions. The subclass says "your metallurgic pursuits have led to you making armor a conduit for your magic". They are designing armor that channels their magic in different styles, which they can modify in multiple ways. The mechanics are a simplification of the "research" process, just like wizards automatically receiving new spells in their spellbook is a simplification of them discovering how to access higher level magic.
I didn't say it was "sci-fi", did I?

I said it didn't fit. It doesn't fit because it's ultra-heavy-duty magitech, not "sci-fi". It turns Dragon's Dogma into Final Fantasy 13. That's fine if you want to run Final Fantasy 13, but if you want to run Dragon's Dogma, it doesn't work.
Apologies if you didn't mean sci-fi, I guess I misread your "it doesn't fit a popular fantasy archetype" post from earlier. I thought you were implying with the italicization that there was another genre that artificers are better for (and people commonly complain that they're "too sci-fi for D&D").
This is just beneath you, dude.

Many classes in 5E have basically no options, or no real trap options. A mediocre subclass is not a trap option, so that's most classes in D&D already out as not having trap options. No Divine caster has any trap options because they get all spells. So they're out too. What does that leave us, Arcane casters? Except Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards get enough spells and a good enough spell list it's almost impossible to trap yourself - and they don't have anything like Infusions or the magic-item-simulator stuff.
Martial characters choose their subclass, combat-enhancing feats/ASIs, and fighting styles (except barbarians). Battle Masters get to choose maneuvers, too. There are "trap" fighting styles (Great Weapon Fighting and Protection come to mind), trap feats (Savage Attacker, for example), and trap subclasses (Battlerager and Berserker Barbarian, Purple Dragon Knight, Arcane Archer, and Champion Fighters, Way of the Four Elements Monks, PHB Ranger subclasses)
I would challenge you to actually argue that "arguable", because I don't think it is.

Warlocks are far more obvious - for starters all their choices are openly and obviously presented to them, which is flatly not the case for Artificers.

And to be a "good Warlock" you need two things - Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast. Boom, done, you're great. You don't need any system mastery. After that the differences are small. That is not true at all with Artificers. And certainly no other class is even arguable.
That's only if you know how good Agonizing Blast is. Which requires familiarity with the system. Pact of the Blade is a trap option, the Eldritch Invocations that give you a spell you can cast once a day with a spell slot are traps compared to many other options, and some of the subclasses are bad (Undying is the most egregious). And with how few spells Warlocks get to learn/cast, some of the spell options are traps, too.

The optimal option for different Artificer subclasses is just as simple as "Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast". Battle Smiths need one of the Magic Weapon infusions, and they're good. Armorers need armor-increasing ones and eventually a magic weapon one, and they're good. Alchemists and Artillerists need an Enhanced Arcane Focus, and they're good. 1-2 infusions required to be as optimal in your role as the Warlock is in the Eldritch Blast spamming.
 

Tangent: @Ruin Explorer has pretty good videogames tastes.

re: artificers,

My main problem with them is that a fullcaster is already a good ''make my party magical'' buffer if they want too. Just in terms of half-casters, a paladin has better defenses, better saves (for the whole party), deas more damage and heals as-much (or better) than an artificer!
 


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