Dragonlance Dragonlance Creators Reveal Why There Are No Orcs On Krynn

Talking to the Dragonlance Nexus, Dragonlance creators Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman revealed why the world of Krynn features no orcs -- in short, because they didn't want to copy Tolkien, and orcs were very much a 'Middle Earth' thing.

Weis told Trampas Whiteman that "Orcs were also viewed as very Middle Earth. We wanted something different." Hickman added that it was draconians which made Krynn stand out. Read more at the link below!

Why are there no Orcs in Krynn? Weis and Hickman give us the answer! - Dragonlance Nexus

Dragonhelm gets the scoop from Weis and Hickman on why there are no orcs in Krynn. Read More

dragonlancenexus.com

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So, WotC isn't allowed to publish anything other than kitchen sink settings from now on? Because any curated setting is by definition going to arbitrarily add or remove things from the rest of the ruleset.

I don't remember this much fuss when WotC published Mythic Odysseys of Theros, which definitely restricts which creatures/PC races exist in the setting.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well that's just sad.

Given that Warcraft makes orcs into well-rounded individuals with needs, politics, etc., rather than dudes who exist to have swords stuck in them, as in LotR, I'd say it's quite the improvement.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm happy orcs are not in DL. It's part of the "good" parts of DL. But let's make sure we don't portray DL as a near perfect example of world building. All I will say is Steel Coins

I said worldbuilding, not good world building.

Dragonlance had good parts and bad parts.

 

[Maxperson]

And I'm saying that had they included orcs (or should WotC decided to add them), then they almost certainly wouldn't just throw them in for no reason, but would instead construct a reason for orcs to be there in the same way they did everything they did put into the setting and work to integrate them into the world in a natural way.

If I were going to add something to a setting I like (primarily Eberron and Planescape for me), I'm not going to just "drop them in for no reason". I'm going to find/create a place for it to fit and weave it in so it does so naturally.

Every setting with unique worldbuilding makes decisions to include or exclude things, whether it's lore like major wars and plagues, or mechanical/things like magic being affected by moon phases and lack of orcs.

Yes they could have included them, but they didn't. So they had reason for their absence rather than their inclusion.

The only reason "orcs don't have a place in Krynn" is because no one's been allowed to try and make a place for them.

Well, that's not true. Anyone who has ever bought and run Krynn has been allowed to try and make a place for them. I could have done it 20 years ago and I can do it tomorrow.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Lack of foundation for something to exist in the game world would be just as appropriate in 2082 as it was in 1982.

orcs at some point were 1 note minion bad guys... that is not the way we or WotC sees them now, as such any reason with "we didn't want to use them as our 1 note minion" should be rethought

World building is world building. If you just toss stuff into the world without any rhyme or reason, that's anti-world building, since nothing it is not being built, but rather just a segment of something that is tossed in haphazardly.

i don't think those words mean what you think they do

 

[Maxperson]

orcs at some point were 1 note minion bad guys... that is not the way we or WotC sees them now, as such any reason with "we didn't want to use them as our 1 note minion" should be rethought

Why? Including orcs for the sake of including them/options is just as much tradition as excluding them because they were excluded in the past is. What non-tradition reason is there for the inclusion of orcs in Dragonlance?

i don't think those words mean what you think they do

They do. There's nothing world building about tossing orcs or whatever into a world with no reason for them to be there. That's just including them for the sake of tradition.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Well, that's not true. Anyone who has ever bought and run Krynn has been allowed to try and make a place for them. I could have done it 20 years ago and I can do it tomorrow.

I mean from WotC's side of the equation, not homebrew or third-party.

The rationale given for the lack of orcs in Dragonlance is that the original developers of the setting didn't want to include orcs in Dragonlance. I am not making a statement one way or the other on whether that was the correct decision. I don't find the rationale in question particularly compelling, but I am also not a Dragonlance fan, so I have little real investment in the matter.

What I am trying to understand is why there is so much resistance to even the hypothetical that WotC might create a place for orcs in the 5e version of Dragonlance, as they did for Dragonborn and Eladrin in the 4e release of Eberron.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So, WotC isn't allowed to publish anything other than kitchen sink settings from now on? Because any curated setting is by definition going to arbitrarily add or remove things from the rest of the ruleset.

no, but they need to have good enough reasons for the removal of any of the basic options.

 

[Morrus]

The rationale given for the lack of orcs in Dragonlance is that the original developers of the setting didn't want to include orcs in Dragonlance. I am not making a statement one way or the other on whether that was the correct decision. I don't find the rationale in question particularly compelling, but I am also not a Dragonlance fan, so I have little real investment in the matter.

That's literally the rationale for everything a writer does. Why does the hero kill the villain's henchman? Because the writer wanted them to. Why didn't the hero grow wings? Because the writer didn't want them to. Why is Vader Luke's father? Because Lucas wanted him to be. Why isn't Palpatine Luke's father? Because Lucas didn't want him to be. Why did Gandalf fall off a bridge? Because Tolkien wanted him to. Why did he come back? Because Tolkien wanted him to do that, too. Why are there dwarves with blunderbusses? Because the writer wanted them. Why are there no dinosaurs/steamtrains/spaceships/orcs? Because the writer didn't want them. Not only is it a compelling reason, it's the most compelling reason -- that's how art works.

Now you can disagree whether it's good art or not (that's also how art works) but an artist's choices not being a compelling reason as to the content of their work? That's how they make stuff.

 

[Kai Lord]

no, but they need to have good enough reasons for the removal of any of the basic options.

I think "it isn't part of the flavor of this particular setting" is all the reason they ever need.