D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor: Species

[Scribe]

my roots are british yet we clearly see things differently.

the problem is when a thing is endlessly mindlessly copied to the point of uselessness it becomes dull, and few innovate or make a new archetype for them.

I respect Tolkien's ability, but living in his shadow would deprive us of what we could make.

Its not living in the shadow. I feel, and obviously reasonable people can disagree, that what makes the Elves and Hobbits (Halflings) is something that is universal, and certainly speaks to a point in time, and a particularly British (or type of British) expression and view.

There doesnt need to be a new archetype, when they exist to be that archetype.

Do we need 100x of Elves? Certainly not. Do we need anything? Not really. Do the typical Elves (High/Astral and Wood) have near universal relevance within Western RPG/Fantasy? Without question they can (not must!) because the basic tropes are so foundational.

To me anyway.

past being nice and small I am seeing nothing.

Thats missing what they are via Tolkien, completely.

 

[Tonguez]

No, a quick google hit is good enough for me.
However, they are what we call the genteel and rustic people of our true past, farmers and plantation owners without slavery. They hobbies are meant to be what Tolkien himself envisioned what humans should have been: people of the land in which they inhabit. Industrialisation destroyed forests and green lands all over the world, and led to World War I which destroyed even more green land that took a long time to recover. To Tolkien, hobbies represent a pastoral and rural past that humans shouldn't have forgotten.

And that for me is the problem with Halflings, they are just idealised rustic humans which is a trope that is quite sufficiently represented by actual rustic humans. Compo from Last of the Summer Wine is small, quirky and hairy too. Then of course you get Kenneth Grahame and Beatrix Potter representing the same tropes with bunnies, moles, puddle ducks and toads. Not to mention that I also enjoy ME James ghost tales and similar folk horror tropes that also lie deep in the same rural idyll.

People just liking them is fine, It’s just weird that humans were voted out for being boring so early and yet the most human-like of the Demi-humans remains

.

 

[Scribe]

People just liking them is fine, It’s just weird that humans were voted out for being boring so early and yet the most human-like of the Demi-humans remains

Thats just the same contrarianism that leads to the malicious attack on Tieflings. "We cannot have humans win!" and "We must downvote the edge lords!"

Which is ironic, when its just a different kind of stereotyping that people lament when people are in favour of archetypes existing at all.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And that for me is the problem with Halflings, they are just idealised rustic humans which is a trope that is quite sufficiently represented by actual rustic humans.

D&D lacks those humans though. D&D describes their humans as if Vin Diesel's IMDB page joined Slytherin.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Its not living in the shadow. I feel, and obviously reasonable people can disagree, that what makes the Elves and Hobbits (Halflings) is something that is universal, and certainly speaks to a point in time, and a particularly British (or type of British) expression and view.

There doesnt need to be a new archetype, when they exist to be that archetype.

Do we need 100x of Elves? Certainly not. Do we need anything? Not really. Do the typical Elves (High/Astral and Wood) have near universal relevance within Western RPG/Fantasy? Without question they can (not must!) because the basic tropes are so foundational.

To me anyway.



Thats missing what they are via Tolkien, completely.

they should be less relevant in fantasy if only so something new can grow and contrast them.

what was Tolkiens halfling take past glutton and unimportant and used to contrast with the epic heroes?

And that for me is the problem with Halflings, they are just idealised rustic humans which is a trope that is quite sufficiently represented by actual rustic humans. Compo from Last of the Summer Wine is small, quirky and hairy too. Then of course you get Kenneth Grahame and Beatrix Potter representing the same tropes with bunnies, moles, puddle ducks and toads. Not to mention that I also enjoy ME James ghost tales and similar folk horror tropes that also lie deep in the same rural idyll.

People just liking them is fine, It’s just weird that humans were voted out for being boring so early and yet the most human-like of the Demi-humans remains

.

I voted out humans so that the basic baseline does not win on inoffensiveness alone, you want a decent final two.

D&D lacks those humans though. D&D describes their humans as if Vin Diesel's IMDB page joined Slytherin.

yeah and no one builds that or ever thinks like that honestly it bothers me that they fail to grasp humans despite being them.

 

[Vaalingrade]

yeah and no one builds that or ever thinks like that honestly it bothers me that they fail to grasp humans despite being them.

Fantasy nerds constantly underestimate humans.

I blame decades of being told that elves, who suck, are better than us.

 

[Scribe]

what was Tolkiens halfling take past glutton and unimportant and used to contrast with the epic heroes?

As noted. None of the Hobbits we follow in LotR are gluttons, unimportant, or less epic. Its quite literally, the point of the Hobbit, that despite its roots (our roots!) the things they cherish, are the things with actual value in life, and they are heroic all the same.

However, they are what we call the genteel and rustic people of our true past, farmers and plantation owners without slavery. They hobbies are meant to be what Tolkien himself envisioned what humans should have been: people of the land in which they inhabit. Industrialisation destroyed forests and green lands all over the world, and led to World War I which destroyed even more green land that took a long time to recover. To Tolkien, hobbies represent a pastoral and rural past that humans shouldn't have forgotten.

 

[el-remmen]

And by "children," I mean lizardfolk.

 

[Scribe]

And by "children," I mean lizardfolk.

 

[CleverNickName]

Here's the Top Twelve (or the "Dirty Dozen," if your favorite has already been kicked off), in order of highest to lowest score and color-coded:

Elf, Wood (17 points)
Dwarf, Mountain (16 points)
Half-Elf (16 points)
Half-Orc (15 points)
Lizardfolk (11 points)
Halfling, Lightfoot (10 points)
Aasimar (8 points)
Dragonborn, Gem (8 points)
Hobgoblin (8 points)
Gnome, Forest (7 points)
Genasi, Earth (5 points)
Kobold (5 points)