D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter

[Chaosmancer]

OTOH, at tiers 3 and 4, fighters should be as equally legendary and mythic as casters.

Yeah, we end up at this point every single time, but the thing people end up hiding behind is that structure of Western Myth.

Hercules literally held the weight of the entire sky upon his shoulders, "but he's the son of a god", sure, and so were the vast majority of figures in western myth, because social power derived from "do you know who my father is" and therefore all power derived from it.

Besides, do you know why my Barbarian should be able to do significant structural damage to a mountain? Because at level 20 it would be pretty dang epic to fight something like this

But even more than that, why can't I get the ability to auto-pass some skill checks? Why can't I get the ability to to run through a wall? Why can't I do the batman disappearing act where the light swings and I disappear from sight in half a second while you are staring right at me? Why can't I disarm an enemy who misses me with an attack?

Casters can consistently rewrite the rules of the game. "This person MUST tell me the truth", "I move from here, to here, instantly ignoring everything in my way", "That way is now down", "You cannot walk past this line". Meanwhile, warriors are consistently constrained by the rules of the game and told "you can't do anything that might look like magic, because you don't have magic" meaning that they can never break or rewrite the rules.


A great example of something that honestly almost feels good from this packet is the Barbarian. Primal Knowledge and the Berserkers Intimidate are really cool abilities, that only have a single downside. They are exclusively tied to Rage. And Rage is a combat feature the Barbarian desperately needs and desperately cannot waste. But those abilities are WONDERFUL.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

OTOH, at tiers 3 and 4, fighters should be as equally legendary and mythic as casters.

Depends on what you mean by that. I don’t think they should be doing anything comparable in type to Wish, but I’d be happy to see rogues be able to have a “passive stealth” and/or be able to hide while not obscured if they have stealth expertise.

I think high level rogues should also get the ability to just auto kill anything below a certain CR threshold when they strike. Or have advantage on all weapon attacks.

Fighters should at high levels have legendary saves, and be able to apply them to ability checks as well.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Depends on what you mean by that. I don’t think they should be doing anything comparable in type to Wish, but I’d be happy to see rogues be able to have a “passive stealth” and/or be able to hide while not obscured if they have stealth expertise.

I think high level rogues should also get the ability to just auto kill anything below a certain CR threshold when they strike. Or have advantage on all weapon attacks.

Fighters should at high levels have legendary saves, and be able to apply them to ability checks as well.

That sounds appropriate for 7th level, not 17th level. I want high level thieves to steal someone's identity and memories, or be able to jump through shadows, not just have slightly bigger numbers on stealth.

I'd prefer some unique abilities from 9+ similar to invocations which include mythic abilities, granted magic items (through the power of your growing legend), or some bigger numbers ones. Those who want their town guards +1 can just not pick the mythic ones. Feats are too universal and too infrequent.

 

[Neonchameleon]

That sounds appropriate for 7th level, not 17th level. I want high level thieves to steal someone's identity and memories, or be able to jump through shadows, not just have slightly bigger numbers on stealth.

We can't have much more of this talk or people will start thinking we're advocating for things back that existed in 4e.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

We can't have much more of this talk or people will start thinking we're advocating for things back that existed in 4e.

Shhh, you said the quiet part out loud!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That sounds appropriate for 7th level, not 17th level. I want high level thieves to steal someone's identity and memories, or be able to jump through shadows, not just have slightly bigger numbers on stealth.

Hiding while literally not obscured isn’t “slightly better numbers”, it’s at-will invisibility.

As for jumping through shadows that is a particular niche in D&D , not a general ability, and that’s a good thing.

Make a shadow dancer rogue is you want that, it doesn’t even need to be high level. The shadow monk does it at level 6. Drop the attack bonus and maybe shorten but level-scale the distance, and it could be your main level 3 ability.

Stealing intangibles is not anything lower than epic boon territory. That that was an epic destiny in 4e. That’s way more powerful than meteor swarm.

I'd prefer some unique abilities from 9+ similar to invocations which include mythic abilities, granted magic items (through the power of your growing legend), or some bigger numbers ones. Those who want their town guards +1 can just not pick the mythic ones. Feats are too universal and too infrequent.

Well, that’s a totally different class, and every class working that way is a different game.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

This is a game where a mid-level character can faceplant to the ground from the highest tower in the land and walk it off. Any non-magical realism left the moment people started receiving class levels.

 

[Vaalingrade]

This is a game where a mid-level character can faceplant to the ground from the highest tower in the land and walk it off. Any non-magical realism left the moment people started receiving class levels.

"Okay, but I still want the wizard to have the most fun."

 

[Stalker0]

This is a game where a mid-level character can faceplant to the ground from the highest tower in the land and walk it off. Any non-magical realism left the moment people started receiving class levels.

Which is why I hope WOTC keeps the new exhaustion rules and applies them to falling damage in some way, to get rid of this thorny absurdity.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'd rather remove falling damage entirely than another way to add the obnoxious exhaustion mechanic. Either one.